what the hell has happened

[chili]

this happened on tuesday for some reason i was not able to access the site so i posted elsewhere and have got some ideas, has anyone here any ideas what i may have done ?

heres one that i hope someone can help me solve, the peugeot forums i use are down at the mo so am posting here for ideas.
excuse the drawing its not very good, but hopefully helps visualise what happened.


right then today we went to southend and was after a parking space down western esplanade by the casino, seen some on the opposite side of the road so i have done a u turn in an area designated for this, (see above) the u turn area had a slight hump and then sort of dipped down and the on-coming lane sort of inclined up so there was a sort of flat "V" area where the 2 section meet. my peugeot 406 has swung round gone into this hardly noticible v bit and i have sort of knocked something under the car ?? at first i thought it was the front fairing where the fog lights are.
anyway nothing came off car did'nt stop or anything, it was almost the same as going over a sleeping policeman and catching the underside of the car, when you don't quite get it right.
parked up and thought i'd check the front.....oh no a small puddle of liquid...watery semi clear green tint to it and slightly oily texture, **** i thought i have caught the radiator ah well not alot i can do now. off we went and had a reasonable day out went a got lunch and scrounged 2 x 4pinta milk bottles filled with water and a 5 litre detergent bottle filled with water. got back to the car got the mrs in it and my son got my tomtom set up ready to drive off and get as far as possible before the thing packed up on me. popped the bonnet and looked under the car DRY ?? no puddles looked in the engine bay DRY ?? no signs of anything broken popped the lid of the radiator expansion bottle FULL ?? did not need all my bottles of water, jumped in car started up and off we went, temp was fine at 87c what it normally registers drove 80 miles without a hitch, while driving am thinking anti freeze is normally blue, maybe i have buggered the air con and this was coolant i saw ? got home parked up, and left the engine running jumped out went to the front of the car....no drips no leaks nothing, popped the bonnet again nothing to see out of the ordinary, jumped back in the car and fired up the air con on auto, IT WORKS ??

what the hell have i done ?
i need the air con regassing so next week i will pop it in kwik fit as they are 50% cheaper than any garage and if it does not hold the pressure they do not re gas it and you do not get charged so that will tell me if i have done the air con in.
in the meantime anybody else got any ideas ?

thanks


some important points that i missed in my inital post

a. did'nt have the air con on as i know it needs re-gassing and not ice cold

b. the drips/small pool appeared from below the drivers side of the car directly below where the headlight and fog light are situated.

looked again today took car out and its fine...no sign of anything ?

[chili]

a couple of replys i got below

chili, the oil could have leaked out anywhere along the system. The dye in it has a fluorescence which is seen with a UV light but even the naked eye can see a green tinge.

Again, as Issigonis said, it's likely your AC isnt working at all. You sometimes just get the impression it is because of the blown air. Turn the A/C switch off and keep the blower on and you'll see there isn't any difference.

Another point, check with Kwik Fit on their policy of No charge if the system has a leak because my experience of these standalone machines is not good. Their vacuum leak test is not very reliable.




my reply

dingbat i think you have hit the nail on the head.
i tried today turning blowers on and then pressing a/c button, no stuuter in prm no change in temp, turned a/c off evertyhing was the same
now on to the next stage, what is the easiest and cheapest way to fault test the aircon, and see why it is not working ?
obviously it would not work if it had no gas in it as it is fitted with a sensor i think to detect low levels of coolant/refrigerant

someone told me that if i press the auto button and everything fires up then the air con is working, do you think my problem is mechanical or just a case of re-gas ?

many thanks so far

oh also kwik fit say if it has a leak etc they do not charge



another reply

Chili,
If the A/C is only blowing cool air, are you sure it is working at all?
With the car at idle, and the heater fan on, switch the A/C on. You should notice that there is a "click" from under the bonnet as the compressor cuts in, (you may have to get someone to listen by the engine with the bonnet up.)and the engine revs should dip slightly, and then pick back up. Then hold the engine at 1500 RPM for two minutes, and feel how cold the air is. Switch the A/C off, with the engine at the same speed, and the air temprature, over two to three minutes, should then start to rise. The oil is put in with the gas to lubricate the system.


Bet you've got a cracked high pressure air con pipe or condenser...hence the oil leak. Most manufacturers don't usually put any dye in (vauxhall excepted) - its only after a re-gas that dye is added, so any leaks can be easy to spot using a U.V. torch. A tester man will pressurise the system with nitrogen, spray any connections with soap solution (looking for bubbles) and listen for any leaks using specialised equipment ( usually a length of plastic pipe stuck in his lug hole).

[chili]

i am now convinced that my aircon did not work correctly before my mishap, i think all i heard was the blowers working. and i am pretty sure it also ain't working now

[Welly]

Chilli,

On the 406 there is only one system you could possibly damage by grounding the thing (and even this would be difficult) but it would be the power steering heat exchanger loop.

This length of aluminium tubing does a simple loop and it is located at the bottom of the radiator but slightly forward, you will see it by crawling just underneath the front bumper and looking up it's near the front cross member the fluid from this would be reddish black.

In my opinion you could not have damaged your water system or the air con by grounding out, in fact even if you had a MAJOR fracture in the air con (like a sudden open end of a pipe) then it could not produce enough green oil to drip down and make a puddle, as it would first spray everywhere under pressure, similarly a small leek (like mine) produces a very small green patch but not under the car.

I suspect, (and forgive me if this sounds a bit obvious or rude) that you actually parked over someone elses green puddle and because you had just grounded yours you naturally thought the worst.

This happened on a Mazda forum when I had a Mazda and someone had a pool of yellow very strong smelling liquid under there car but could not see where it could possibly come from.........well it turned out he had new neighbours the day before and their old/Ill cat pissed out a huge rancid piss under his car because it was frightened.

There is only one other possibilty here, some old antifreeze was sitting in the bottom cross member under the rad and it literally 'spilt' out when you dipped the car but this is extremely far fetched.

[chili]

hi ya welton thanks for the input.
i am in no position to agree or disagree with your judgement as i am baffled by the whole thing. i can tell you that when i first grounded the car and parked up some 2 minutes later when i checked the front of the car this fluid was definatly leeking from my car, i watched the drips. other than that i have not got a clue. i do however belive the air con does not work and i just hear the blowers.

the whole of the front underside of my car below the rad has a plasic protection cover on it and the drips were coming from what i thought was under the drivers fog light area

[Welly]

Have you got headlamp washers?

The washer bottle is in the drivers side wheel arch liner just behind and above the fog light.

There is a large hose from that bottle that serves the headlamp washers, that could have been damaged and emptied some old washer fluid down there.

There is 3 or 4 bolts with washers holding the cover plate of the arch liner at the bottom in front of the wheel and it's all in there, worth a look.

[chili]

well i have just been out and t-cut and polished my baby.laid under the car and cannot see any damage whatsoever.
i have no headlight washers, and the washer bottle still has fluid in it.
i am thinking that if anything is damaged then it will be in this area as the car was turning right so that side of the car was the first to meet the offending bit of road.
i have spoke with my local garage owner who i get on quite well with and he is gonna whack it on his ramps monday morning, and see if he can see anything. if he can't then i suppose i should visit kwik fit and let them attempt a re-gas, if they find a leak they will not re-gas and i will not have to pay anything

can anyone confirm that if there was low gas in the air con then it would not work ? i have cheked all fuses in engine bay and drivers inside of the car and they are all fine (are there any other fuses located anywhere)

are there any drain pipes in that area that may have been blocked and i have disloged one ?

if i have damaged the air con then the initial escape of gas etc would have been at point of damage and what i saw when i parked up could of been the left overs dripping out of somewhere....................

washer fluid does make sense as the green could be fairy liquid hence the oily feel ? i'd of thought coolant for air con would evaporate straight away.

the inside of the engine bay is clean and no tell tale signs of damp patches etc

[Welly]

Chilli, to damage something by grounding out you would have to smash right through the undertray and all sorts of stuff would get damaged so I doubt very much you have broken anything at all, the fluid is a mistery though.

If the a/c does not work then it either has leaked and has tripped out (there is a pressure switch mounted on the condenser on the left) or, the compressor has failed, or there is an electrical fault stopping the a/c from running.

You should be aware though if it has leaked then it will almost certainly be the Condensor radiator and that will be £300.00 to sort out.

Have a look at the compressor right at the bottom under the PAS pump, on the pulley of the compressor there is a clutch mechanism, when the a/c is engaged then the compressor will click in and you will see the very end part of the pulley wheel rotating (it has like a 'Y' arrangement of nuts sticking out and looks a bit out of balance when rotating) if the end of this pulley does not rotate then the compressor is not running hence no a/c.

At the same time 'feel' the large aluminium pipe to the right behind the radiator and low down before it sets up and round the battery this should get very cold and even start to 'sweat'.

The acid test though, as discussed on one of your first threads on here, is to take temperatures at the face vents.

[chili]

cheers welton i tend to agree that if i had smashed something i'd be seeing tell tale signs of damage, but i am not , i am back on night shift this set of 4 so won't ba able o do anything till later.

[chili]

have followed your tips welton and i think the compessor is not working, can't say for sure as it is bloody hard to see the end of this is hard to see from the top down. pipes did not get cold and could not feel anything in the compressor moving......how much are these ?

[Welly]

Chilli, that does not always mean the compressor is broken.

You see, if the refrigerant is very low then the pressure switch will not allow the compressor to run (to protect it from damage).

I think your condenser has leaked, mine was exactly the same and eventually the compressor would not run at all, now I have a new Condenser and new gas and the Compressor is back on again.

[chili]

so the bottom line is to have someone attempt to re-gas the system in order to see if it hold's its pressure and to highlight a leak.

many thanks welton
if you think of anything else let me know

ta

[mjb]

My initial thoughts were an over-full washer fluid container being knocked about a bit. I've noticed that mine never fills up; when it's full (which is below what is visible with the naked eye) it just leaks out onto the floor from underneath. Hmm is this how it's supposed to work, or have I got a broken bottle?

My understanding of A/C is that if you turn it on and your engine revs don't stutter then the compressor probably isn't working which is a much more serious problem than just needing a recharge. I find if you park somewhere quiet enough with the ignition on, engine off, blower off and aircon off, you can hear the compressor chug into life when you turn the aircon on (via the 'a/c' button, not auto because that fires up the blower too)

Is your suspension lowered? I can't imagine grounding my 406 except on the worst of speedbumps (I've been worried about a few!)

[chili]

hi ya mjb
i also thought water bottle with green tinge (fairy liguid)

as for the compressor, i am unable to diagnose it if i have no gas in the system as it will not click in due to low levels of refrigerant, the person i purchased the car from told me it may need a re gas.
no my pug is not lowered
so the a/c can still be tried without the engine running ?

thanks for ya help

[Welly]

I have never known a car that car engage the a/c compressor just with the ignition on.

When you say your washer bottle leaks when you try to fill it up, unfortunately this is usually because there has been some minor front end impact which has damaged the bottle, the FTO I had used to do it and that had been a front - ender, you'd only really get half a bottle in before it pissed all over the floor.

It seems that repair shops sometimes forget to test the washer bottle but it can easily split or get holed in an impact.