How to remove crankshaft pulley bolt?

[davidhamer]

My father's 2.1L Hdi 406 has snapped it's cam belt, luckily this was a tick-over so I'm hoping for limited damage - if any.

Plan is to replace cam belt without doing a full refit, and if I can get the engine to run great. I'll then change the water pump and aux belt and complete the refit.

If there appears damage to the rockers/valves then as the vehicle is quite old I might have to consider the sense in spending more money and time on it.

I used the Haynes manual to get me to almost complete the task of stripping off all the bits to remove the snapped belt, however, i'm really struggling with the crankshaft pulley bolt. It feels absolutely welded! I assume that it's the original peugeot fitment.

I note on one of the other cam belt posts someone mentions 'Jasper's Technique' - can JAsper or anyone else shed some light on this? Any other tips. I've tried some heat, lots of grunt. Could jack the front up higher and try a section of scaffold pole on the end of my long socket wrench. It is a conventional anti-clockwise to remove??? isn't it???

Anyone done this before on a 2.1 and have any gems to share?

Any suppliers for belt kits/water pumps that you'd recommend?

Thanks in advance. David

[steve_earwig]

Hi David, welcome.

I think this is what you're after - viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7593&p=74875&hilit= ... ter#p74875 I don't think you can do this if it has no cam belt though...

One thing though, the engine is either a 2.1 td or an HDi, it can't be both. The HDis are designed to survive dropping the cam belt by breaking the cam followers - you need to pull the cover off to see how many. The 2.1 td isn't, it bends/breaks valves instead

[davidhamer]

Thanks, I'll get my father to dig out his V5 then we can see whether it's registered as a HDi or Td. Thanks for that. I'm new to 406's and it's a real shame that this has happened, as the car's in brilliant nick and otherwise a reliable workhorse. Hence the desire to try to get it working at some cost rather than spend a grand on an equivalent with unknown history.

Mmm, still got a problem with getting this pully bolt off though. Think I'll have to just get the front of the car as high as possible and maybe get a mate round so that we can both swing on it with my 75 year old mother in the drivers seat in charge of gears and brakes. All good fun!

Any other ideas much appreciated.

Ta. David

[davidhamer]

Have found out it's a td!

I'm going to crank the engine over on the pulley bolt and see if there's any unusual points of resistance/noises.

If I take the cam cover off, would i be able to detect any damage to valves from above on the td?

What if two cylinders one on compression one on exhaust only had slightly open valves on the timing cycle, would there be enough clearance in the combustion chamber?

Or am I just hoping against all odds?

Desperately trying to avoid taking head off.....arghhhh

[lozz]

Have found out it's a td!

I'm going to crank the engine over on the pulley bolt and see if there's any unusual points of resistance/noises.

If I take the cam cover off, would i be able to detect any damage to valves from above on the td?

What if two cylinders one on compression one on exhaust only had slightly open valves on the timing cycle, would there be enough clearance in the combustion chamber?

Or am I just hoping against all odds?

Desperately trying to avoid taking head off.....arghhhh

its a gamble mate,
put a cam belt on it keep your fingers crossed,

[davidhamer]

Thanks, for your feedback so far. I'm to try to get the pulley bolt off this weekend, weather permitting.

Any other posts and tips re. 406 td cam belt replacement much appreciated.

Will update you as to the outcome in due course.

Thks, David

[bytecode]

HI davidhammer:

Is there a timing mark on the pulley so that you can set the crank position according to match the correct cam positions? I remember I had to mark my old one with tip-ex before I took everything apart - I'm just wondering how you identify the correct positions?
(Sorry to hijack your thread with idle curiosity)

I think that everyone agrees that those pulley bolts are HARD to undo. I have a 2metre length of steel pipe in the garage to put over the end of my small breaker bar to give me the leverage to undo it - it usually works quite well.

Good luck - I hope you can get it all sorted!

[davidhamer]

Ah! aligning crank and camshaft pulley, there's the next challenge. But it's like climbing a mountain. I'll deal with this step by step. False peak by false peak.
I'm over at my parents tomorrow to lift the front of the car as high as sensible to enable me to get and extension bar on my 1/4 in drive.

Will report back on how i get the pulley bolt off and how i align crankshaft and camshaft. There's positive thinking for you

[jasper5]

Ah! aligning crank and camshaft pulley, there's the next challenge. But it's like climbing a mountain. I'll deal with this step by step. False peak by false peak.
I'm over at my parents tomorrow to lift the front of the car as high as sensible to enable me to get and extension bar on my 1/4 in drive.

Will report back on how i get the pulley bolt off and how i align crankshaft and camshaft. There's positive thinking for you

To remove the crank pulley follow what I wrote in the other thread....

Get a breaker bar/T bar/ratchet, half inch drive at least and a 22mm socket, fit the socket to your bar and fit it to the crank pulley bolt.

Turn the bolt until the bar is tight against the driveshaft, subframe or floor and turn the key to turn the engine....this should shock the bolt free.

If it is very tight and moves a bit at a time, squirt WD 40 into the threads.

This has never failed for me in the several dozen times I've used this method. Be careful what you are doing.

You need a locking pin to lock the crank....

When you get the pulley bolt undone screw it back in and turn the crank until you can push the locking pin through the hole behind the starter into the flywheel to lock it. If you haven't got the locking pin you could use the metal frame off a paint roller as someone suggested a while back...or a long metal rod about 6mm diameter.

To line up the camshaft you need an 8mm bolt or some sort of pin (a drill bit maybe)....turn the camshaft until the hole in the cam pulley is at about 8 o clock then screw/push in the locking pin into the head.

To line up the injection pump turn the pulley until the hole in the pulley is at around 5 o clock then screw or push in the locking bolt/pin into the block.

I hope this helps.

[davidhamer]

Jasper, thanks for feedback. Have looked at realignment of camshaft, inject and crank pulleys and found all alignment holes. Am ok on these. Took off starter motor today to reveal lock pin hole for flywheel and located hole for tdc of cyl 4.

Back to releasing the pulley bolt as with a meter long scaffold pole on my 1/4 in drive and the front of the vehicle about 24 ins off the ground i still couldn't break the seal on the bolt thread. With vehicle in 4th gear and foot-brake firmly on, there's just way too much play through the transmission and this is cushioning the force that I'm exerting and resulting in me fouling in front valance with the extension before I can really force the thread. I've tried kind of 'pretensioning' this play out, but still keep fouling the extension on the body of the car.

Local Peugeot dealer says they use air guns!

Your advice if I understand it is to use the starter to crank the engine over. But what's the risk of damage to the valves doing this with no drive on the camshaft? Even a small burst on the starter motor could drive the crankshaft a full turn, driving the other 3 pistons through tdc and risking piston/valve collision. What are your thoughts?

Have you done this before on a 2.1td with no cam belt?

Thanks, David

[jasper5]

David, I understand your reluctance to turn the starter to unlock the crank bolt.

Did you actually try to turn the engine with the pulley bolt to check for resistance?

If there isn't any resistance then you shouldn't have any worries turning the starter.

When I undo the bolt using my method I lock the socket bar against the driveshaft and just flick the key at first to see how it feels for resistance.

Once you have cracked the bolt you can squirt WD40 behind the bolt head and use the long bar/scaffold pole with the engine in gear and brake on....the main thing is to crack the thread lock fitted to the bolt threads....WD 40 squirted behind the bolt head and onto the threads will soften the thread lock to allow the bolt to undo.

Basically, you only need move the engine a little to unlock the bolt.

You just need to be as careful as you can.If you have any worries about using my method....don't use it.

To be truthful I haven't had to use my method on a broken timing belt situation.

[steve_earwig]

I can understand the reluctance to spin the engine and possibly do more damage. I can't find my D8 Haynes (probably up at my house) but is there any way to remove the rockers or cam so the valves are all shut? Don't tell me, remove cylinder head

[davidhamer]

Have rotated crank on pulley bolt, the only resistance appears to be compression. Yet i was expecting some mechanical resistance.

Am going to give Jasper method a shot. Am taking a view on that the cambelt failing at tickover may not have done any damage in which case a very short burst on the starter shouldn't cause any further damage. And if the cambelt failure has caused damage then a short burst on the starter isn't going to make the situation any worse.

In a perfect world we'd all have the right tools, nuts and bolts would always be accessible and time would be infinite!

[davidhamer]

Used Jasper method this evening with success!

22mm socket. 1/2 inch wrench. secured against underside of right hand drive shaft using tie wraps. short burst on starter - terrible screech - which I guess was loctite easing off. Then used gears & brakes to hold crank whilst undid remainder of thread. Still had to use some force to unwind the bolt. But at last!

Thanks to all for feedback.

Now I'll post a separate post requesting the cambelt and auxiliary belt routing over rollers/tensioners and pulleys. The Haynes manual is really dismissive of the 2.1. Loads of 1.9 diagrams!

[davidhamer]

Final update. replacement belt on and engine running with no apparent damage to valves & rockers. Must just have been luck on the cycle of the crank/cam when it snapped.

Now that I know we've not got to take the head off. I can concentrate on remaining jobs. Which are to replace the water pump and finally the auxiliary belt.

Thks to all for your help.