Cambelt replaced on 2.1td! Phew what a job!

[davidhamer]

Just to summarise my previous posts. Whilst the belt snapped, it was on tickover and so I was hoping for divine assistance in ensuring that none of the valves had taken a hit from the friendly pistons. Well I finally got the belt on today and cranked her over and aside from a little smoke on initial startup, the engine's no noisier than before. Revs freely and ticks over smoothly. I guess my father was just lucky. So there you have it. Not all td's will break or bend valves when the timing belt snaps.

On a related note I am handy with spanners but no mechanic and this is the first 406 that I've ever worked on;

But what would a mechanic allow time wise for replacing the belt. I'd say a at least a good day. There's a lot of faff involved.

Here's the list of tasks that i had to complete to get the job done, it may not be comprehensive or in the correct order, more of a brain dump:

Disconnect battery. Unplug ECU & remove. Unbolt ECU carrier and remove (fiddly). Remove o'side wheel and wheel arch inner (fiddly rusty self tappers on inner wheel arch; heads had to be drilled out). Put car on axles stands. Remove crankshaft pulley bolt (Ha! yeah as simply as that! - I used Jasper's method).Put jack under sump (piece of wood on top of jack to protect sump).Remove top o'side engine mounting (x7 bolts/nuts, 1 bolt incredibly difficult to get on to this took 40 mins alone) to provide access to top cambelt cover (use jack to lower engine to assist remove bracket). Undo and remove top timing belt cover. Undo and remove forward belt cover. Remove aux belt (loosen tensioner first). Remove crankshaft pulley to expose crankshaft sprocket (check for oil leaks). Remove air box. Remove starter motor. Set timing for tdc on cyl 4 (need x2 8mm x 50mm bolts) and a second set of hands to insert 6mm (or thereabouts) rod in timing hole in fly wheel. I had removed remains of old belt at this point. But I guess if you're replacing then at this point you'd release tension on the timing belt tensioner and ease the belt of the sprockets and idlers.


Removal of Timing Belt Tensioner and Idler Wheel
I replaced both the tensioner and idler wheel. The idler wheel was dead straight forward. Lower engine on jack - it's easier to get access on to the bolt through the wheel arch. The tensioner was a sod as there were no instructions in the Haynes manual or the Gates replacement timing belt kit instructions! So I was working somewhat blind. Firstly, Peugeot kindly paint over the head of the tensioner pulley wheel nut (that i can deal with), AND they also paint in the head of the 5mm allen bolt that locks the tensioner! Pourquoi? zoot! Now this is potentially really bad news, as if you have a poorly fitting allen bit or key, or cannot get your key in due to the paint restricting depth, then you risk burring the inside of the head. I suggest you use a pointy 90 degree tool to clean paint out before proceeding to insert any key or bit. I jacked the engine up to get good access to the head on my 3/8 drive and 5mm bit. There are some lines unhelpfully run on the inside of the wheel arch here (can't recall whether they're fuel or brake - think the former). I made some small 'adjustments' to them using a piece if timber to get them out of the way; only about 10mm or so.

Now having removed the tensioner pulley nut and loosened the allen bolt; the tensioner kit was loose but not free?!?! Spinning on the pulley stud!Mmmm. I removed the o'side engine bracket to get a better look. After much deliberation and tea and an hour with a junior hacksaw to disassemble the tensioner I found out why. The pulley 'stud' screws into the block but has a (if I can call it) fatter part of the stud that holds the back of the tensioner pulley to the block.


How you'd probably remove the tensioner with some instructions!
I would summise that to remove the stud you will need x2 M6 nuts. Screw one on the exposed thread and then lock a second on to this. Then use a 10mm ring or socket (if nuts aligned) to unscrew the stud. It does have some form of threadlock on it and so will need a little effort to get it to move. Once out the tensioner was free for removal.

Note. On the refit of this stud I used two M6 nuts to screw the stud in and used some new thread lock.

I did this with the o'side engine bracket removed. You probably wouldn't need to do this, if you were a jim dandy mechanic, but it only took 10 mins to get it off and made the job sooo.... much easier.

Refit was reversal of above:

As I am to replace the water pump as well if no further damage detected, I went through a limited refit below, just to assess the engine for any possible further damage.

Tensioner (set to allow belt least tension - need 10mm box key to adjust tensioner), fit o'side engine bracket, cleaned lower half of engine using degreaser and jet washed prior to presenting new timing belt, ease belt on from crankshaft gear anticlockwise (no slack), drop engine on jack to enable best access to water pump sprocket last should be a tight fit even with tensioner detensioned the pulley still exerts against the flat of the belt. Removed injector pump and retaining bolts and pin in flywheel. Refitted temporarily crankshaft pulley wheel and bolt. Cranked engine over twice on crankshaft pulley bolt and checked that timing holes still align. Released timing belt tensioner to enable tensioner pulley to exert on flat of belt. Cranked over twice on pulley bolt and checked timing hole alignment again. Refitted top engine mounting. Refitted starter motor. Refitted air box and filter. Temporarily refitted ecu. Cranked over and fired up. Result

Now I have to release the tension on the belt and slip the belt off to replace the water pump next weekend. Then I've got to refit timing belt covers. Inner wheel arch (new fixings).

I should add that of course nuts & bolts need to be torqued accordingly and threadlocked accordingly. This will be fastidiously done next weekend.

Hope the above is useful for anyone else about to enter 2.1 td timing belt territory.

[Gary406]

garage charged me 5 hours labour for doing the timing belt on my 1.9td .

[davidhamer]

I think the 2.1 has less space in the engine compartment hence having to remove engine mounts etc.

Just wondered if any other 2.1 owners had experience of time and cost.

Ta. David

[teamster1975]

Great job David, relieved to hear that it started up fine!!!!

[jasper5]

Very well done

Great result too

For a timing belt change on the 2.1 I usually do them in 3 hours max.

For the 1.9, 2 hours.

HDI, 2 and a half hours.

[plod]

Guess it's a bigger job on the older engines then?

Think the guy did my hdi belt in 90mins - he was peugoet trained mechanic ( whether that actually makes a difference )

[jasper5]

Guess it's a bigger job on the older engines then?

Think the guy did my hdi belt in 90mins - he was peugoet trained mechanic ( whether that actually makes a difference )

Including water pump and bleeding the system?

I've done more than 50 HDi timing belt jobs, they vary from 2 hours to 2 and a half, depends how easy or difficult some of the bolts are to undo.

[plod]

Guess it's a bigger job on the older engines then?

Think the guy did my hdi belt in 90mins - he was peugoet trained mechanic ( whether that actually makes a difference )

Including water pump and bleeding the system?

I've done more than 50 HDi timing belt jobs, they vary from 2 hours to 2 and a half, depends how easy or difficult some of the bolts are to undo.

Actually No

For whatever reason, I didn't think to get the water pump done at the same time

It is on the list of jobs to get done this year
Would you recommend changing the belt again, or do you think I could just change the pump?
Belt was done about 12k ago

[davidhamer]

Wow 2-3 hours looks like the consensus from the experts! now I'm embarassed! This one took me about 8 hrs in 2 hr slices, so far! And I've still got to change the water pump and put it all back together! Still no parts damaged and no injuries sustained.

I guess i'd be able to half the time next time! still let's not rush to that point.

[jasper5]

Wow 2-3 hours looks like the consensus from the experts! now I'm embarassed! This one took me about 8 hrs in 2 hr slices, so far! And I've still got to change the water pump and put it all back together! Still no parts damaged and no injuries sustained.

I guess i'd be able to half the time next time! still let's not rush to that point.

Don't be embarrased, just be proud that you did a very difficult DIY job successfully

I do the job for my living and have 41 years experience.

[davidhamer]

Well, got the replacement water pump on last weekend and got most of the engine compartment sorted. Fired her up - bit of blue smoke but all sweet after a little chugging. Got all the bodywork back on yesterday and took her off the axle stands. Took her for a spin! all good so far as I can tell! I guess my father (and I) were just lucky the way the belt snapped and the resting position of the valves on the cam.

By the way the Gates belt kit recommended Frenetanch thread lock on the dreaded crankshaft pulley bolt. I did some web research and this looks like it is actually Loctite 243. Which I got in a 10ml bottle from my local hardware/engineers wholesaler; They also assured me it was the only Loctite thread lock that they kept as it was appropriate across a large number of applications. They'd never here of Frenetanch.

So many thanks to all that responded to my threads.

By the way is it mandatory for all 406 owners to ride motorcycles as well? So many guys with bikes.

[plod]

The loctite 243, is that the blue stuff

Glad you got it sorted

[davidhamer]

Yes it is blue. But I think that other loctites may be blue also?! I'm not familiar with threadlock compounds but loctite.

http://www.loctite.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/h ... 000000I81L

Provides most if not all the information on 243.

[poddack]

My Puglet is at the backstreet mechanic for the same thing, will let you know when she's done.

[poddack]

Backstreet mechanic took by my estimation 10 hours to do mine, £220. mmmmmmmmm