HDi Remap - Anyone had one for a few years?

Molly's Dad · Post by **Molly's Dad** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 5:14 pm

I had my HDi 90 remapped about 6 months ago and can agree with muffindell that the results are brilliant and well worth the money. My 406 has done 110K miles and is still on the original clutch - and that includes many 000s of miles towing a caravan. Can't think of anything negative - it's smoother, quieter, tons of bottom end grunt and, if you don't change your driving style, extra MPG!

rapport25 · Post by **rapport25** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 5:39 pm

Muffindell it has nothing to do with clutch its the flywheel that causes the problems not driving style. Mine was a dual mass flywheel. Now it s a standard design but uprated as for performance far cheaper than trading upto a 136 2.2. 406 hdi. Also that engine is suppose to be trouble with lots of faults etc... The best money i have spent and well worth upgrading flywheel and clutch its 0 to 60 in a little over 8 secs and tops 135mph.

Post by **Welly** » Tue May 01, 2007 7:03 am

Rappy, er, how much did the new clutch and fly cost if you don't mind me asking

rapport25 · Post by **rapport25** » Tue May 01, 2007 5:31 pm

No probs Welly. The clutch was £150 uprated by 30% compared to a standard clutch. Flywheel was £285 uprated yet again 30%. Plus labour which is around 9 hrs mate charged me for 7 hrs. Plus i had it superchipped which cost me £511 all in.

Post by **Welly** » Wed May 02, 2007 7:37 am

rapport25 wrote:No probs Welly. The clutch was £150 uprated by 30% compared to a standard clutch. Flywheel was £285 uprated yet again 30%. Plus labour which is around 9 hrs mate charged me for 7 hrs. Plus i had it superchipped which cost me £511 all in.

That's pretty good TBH. It's not much more than the standard items really.

Does the clutch bite feel more 'grippy'?

dervpower · Post by **dervpower** » Tue May 08, 2007 8:07 pm

ive got a 90 that i had remapped and fitted a 110 intercooler no probs so far,is the 90 clutch a better unit? but to be honest i dont think the power gain was that big!!

muffindell · Post by **muffindell** » Wed May 09, 2007 9:53 am

Depends on how good a remap you had to be honest. I noticed a huge difference within a couple of hundred yards of driving my remapped car! I wouldn't want to increase the HP on the car unless the chassis was more sorted (slightly lowered with uprated dampers and lower profile tyres). I'm not impressed with the Continental tyres I'm running on at the moment, they are a little unpredictable, with a very soft compound and have too flexible sidewalls which don't help stability at speed. These will be replaced with Michelin's once worn out (that won't take long since a new pair only last about 8k on the front) with a higher speed rating giving a much stiffer sidewall and thus better stability at speed.
It appears that the 90 clutch is better than the DM unit as per 110 models. I thought about retro fitting an intercooler from a 110, but after my remap I changed my mind

)

dervpower · Post by **dervpower** » Wed May 09, 2007 7:30 pm

dm unit??? i only paid £180 forthe remap as he was doing em for half price at the time and i got the full intercooler with pipework,brackets the full lot for £60 so cant complain,in hindsight should have done the remap after the i/c

Captain Jack · Post by **Captain Jack** » Wed May 09, 2007 8:47 pm

dervpower wrote:dm unit???

I am guessing Dual Mass Flywheel... notorious for shattering to pieces

muffindell · Post by **muffindell** » Fri May 11, 2007 10:12 am

I agree with you, the remap will be set up for the non intercooled situation, everything will be wrong. It may be worth either ripping it out or better still get the remap updated, perhaps your man could do this for a discounted rate if you explain the situation.

Blue407 · Post by **Blue407** » Tue May 22, 2007 9:59 am

I had a remap done by Wai at Ultramap who uses the facilities at Chipped UK to do it.

Initial rolling road test showed only 119.7 bhp at the crank (99.5 bhp at the wheels) and a max torque of 213.6 Lb/ft (289.4 nm) not very good for a vehicle with 20,000 miles that's supposed to be 136 bhp and 240 Lb/ft (320 nm)

I had even just had a service, fitted a Pipercross element and was running with BP Ultimate Diesel!

After the remap, which only took 1/2 an hour, we ran another test:-

167.8 bhp at the crank, 117.0 Bhp at the wheels and 268.4 Lb/ft (363.6 nm) of torque, that equates to an increase of 40% in Bhp and 25% torque

The car is a completely different drive, it is more responsive and feels much more like it should have left the factory. I did a couple of runs with my OBDII software which has a 0-60MPH timer and achieved a 8.5s run, unfortunately I didn't try this before the remap. (Book time is 9.5s on this vehicle)

This is now a very quick car and overtaking in 4th, 5th and even 6th is a breeze. Because of the torque it can go from 50mph in 5th and accelerate briskly right up past 120mph (Private road) before needing to engage 6th. 1st and 2nd gear in this car has always been a waste of space, they are so short that you're snatching the next gear very quickly from a fast start.

So what about the fuel economy, obviously if you hammer it everywhere like you just nicked it then it will suffer, but on a sensible run to work I can still achieve 53.3 mpg which is exactly the same as before the remap

I spoke to a couple of engine development guys who reckon that a diesel engine doesn't fully loosen up until at least 60-70,000 miles so the economy and power output will still rise!

Having spent some time analysing the data on the graph, I was a little concerned about the big increase in 'Dissipated Power' shown on the 2nd dyno run, having spoken to Jayson at Chipped UK, he explained that this is due to the engine and tyres getting warmer and that this effected the losses from the crank through to the dyno. The dyno they use automatically calculates losses on the run down after the readings for engine output have been taken. Because I was concerned he offered to do another run on a day when the car was cold.

Here are the results from the two runs we did:-

A small drop in both Bhp output and torque, but the graphs show a much more smooth delivery due to the engine learning it's new specifications. Apparently the Bosch ECU on the 407 HDi has 2Mb or RAM for learning engine and driver paramaters which is unheard of previously.

As far as rolling road (Dyno's) go I would take the figures with a pinch of salt, even though they are calibrated they can only measure the torque applied from the wheels onto the rollers; everything else is calculated based on somewhat 'wooly' parameters. Taking the vehicle to another rolling road would likely give different readings. Do some reaearch on the web and you will find loads of sites explaining why rolling Roads/Dyno's can not provide accurate readings - the only way to measure a engine's output is to take it out of the car and put it on a engine dyno. However they can provide an indication of improvements, but you'll notice these more on the road

Summary
I am very pleased with the remap, it hasn't encourage me to drive like a lunatic but I know I have the power to overtake safely (As a Porshe Boxter found out this morning when he couldn't pull away from me)

muffindell · Post by **muffindell** » Tue May 22, 2007 10:20 am

I agree with you point about Dyno's every one is different, they can only give an indication and figure should just be taken with a pinch of salt. I've been running Peugeot diesels for nearly 20 years now and have found that every one only came on song around 130k miles, at this stage they really fly, engine smooths out, emissions drop and fuel consumption improves. Diesels need thrashing using the fuel rev range from idle to cut off, this is especially true with 'learning ECU's' as it's the only way that the computer can set all parameters correctly. I just wish more people would realise this, they would get far more enjoyment from their car.

Mat

robbie123 · Post by **robbie123** » Tue May 22, 2007 10:23 am

That Bosch ECU learning thing has been around for ages on cars(Probably not 2mb of memory previously though!). My old Volvo 480 Turbo had the exact same system and the turbos had been out since 1989 so definately old technology. If you ever want to liven it up a bit more, disconnect the battery for a couple hours to reset it and then drive the next 100 miles like you stole the car and it will learn your driving style as being a quick driver and the ECU will come boost a bit quicker ect and allow for slightly more boost. Certainly worked on my old turbo so I imagine it will be the same for one of these new fangled diesels

Post by **Welly** » Tue May 22, 2007 1:33 pm

That certainly is an impressive power gain there fella.

A bit weird how it only had 119BHP when you first got there

dervpower · Post by **dervpower** » Tue May 22, 2007 7:14 pm

that seems like an unusually big power jump must feel like a whole different car,i tried the ecu relearn thing by disconnecting the battery etc and didnt notice any difference but lately ive been driving lika a vicar out of curiosity as to what mpg i could achieve and when ive booted it it seemed a bit flat,but i do believe theres some truth as my dad bought a s/h nissan x trail and that changed its characteristics after a while

406oc.co.uk

HDi Remap - Anyone had one for a few years?

remap

Remap

I've bitten the bullet and had it done.....

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