406 HDi timing belt change caused dropped valve?

[jasper5]

That engine was famous for throwing con rods through the block, it was very common.

irrelevant in this case as the engine threw a rod due to the valve breaking and hitting the top of the piston at 2500rpm

I know, but I didn't comment on that.

[elmtreeandy]

Don´t know where to start with my tale of woe. I live in a small community in rural Spain, took my 406 HDI 110 to a reccommended local mechanic (assured he was Peugeot trained) for timing belt change. Engine sounded ok-ish when i got it back, a little tappety but not being well versed with the engine thought no more of it. Drove 120 kilometers before it went t*ts up. cam follower shattered valve bent , glowplug knackered. Took it back to said mechanic who investigated and claimed coincidence. He stripped and rebuilt engine, said it cost him 400 euros to get the head skimmed - since found out head would not require skimming. I got the car back a month later when he phoned to say it was ready. Got 20 yards, oops sorry, meters when the engine management light came on. rather than let him loose on it again I had it transported to the nearest official main dealers who changed EGR and told me the turbo was duff. A year later , having decided to read up on the engine and look into it myself I have had to refit wrongly fitted hoses, put up with having to reset the ecu to get it out of limp mode. Last month I felt brave and drove back to the uk with it. The mechanic who looked after it for me in the uk took a look, reset all the faults and i ran it for a day. The only fault to reappear was 0243 engine boost pressure high. I think this is a fault with the wastegate sticking as the Spanish halfwit had changed the solenoid valve for the wastegate, obviously on the right track but not there. My UUK mechanic also said it sounded like the timing was advanced. I have today pinned the flywheel and went to see if the 8mm bolt lined up with the camshaft only to find that the 8mm screwed hole is a blind hole about 10mm diameter. What has happened ther I don´t know. Have I got someone elses cylinder head, how can I check the timing. Can anyone tell me if I will be able to see if the camshaft is in the correct position if I pin the flywheel and tremove the rocker cover? Will it be obvious if the timing is out? I don´t want to change any settings but there is definitely a lack of power and a diesel knock that was never there previously. Any help will be gratefully appreciated. Although I am not a mechanic I am a fully qualified instrument technician and am not stupid (although with hindsight the wisdom of giving it to the local mechanic sows seeds of doubt). If nothing else it will let a few know that there are folk out here with worse grief than yours.

[elmtreeandy]

Don´t know where to start with my tale of woe. I live in a small community in rural Spain, took my 406 HDI 110 to a reccommended local mechanic (assured he was Peugeot trained) for timing belt change. Engine sounded ok-ish when i got it back, a little tappety but not being well versed with the engine thought no more of it. Drove 120 kilometers before it went t*ts up. cam follower shattered valve bent , glowplug knackered. Took it back to said mechanic who investigated and claimed coincidence. He stripped and rebuilt engine, said it cost him 400 euros to get the head skimmed - since found out head would not require skimming. I got the car back a month later when he phoned to say it was ready. Got 20 yards, oops sorry, meters when the engine management light came on. rather than let him loose on it again I had it transported to the nearest official main dealers who changed EGR and told me the turbo was duff. A year later , having decided to read up on the engine and look into it myself I have had to refit wrongly fitted hoses, put up with having to reset the ecu to get it out of limp mode. Last month I felt brave and drove back to the uk with it. The mechanic who looked after it for me in the uk took a look, reset all the faults and i ran it for a day. The only fault to reappear was 0243 engine boost pressure high. I think this is a fault with the wastegate sticking as the Spanish halfwit had changed the solenoid valve for the wastegate, obviously on the right track but not there. My UUK mechanic also said it sounded like the timing was advanced. I have today pinned the flywheel and went to see if the 8mm bolt lined up with the camshaft only to find that the 8mm screwed hole is a blind hole about 10mm diameter. What has happened ther I don´t know. Have I got someone elses cylinder head, how can I check the timing. Can anyone tell me if I will be able to see if the camshaft is in the correct position if I pin the flywheel and tremove the rocker cover? Will it be obvious if the timing is out? I don´t want to change any settings but there is definitely a lack of power and a diesel knock that was never there previously. Any help will be gratefully appreciated. Although I am not a mechanic I am a fully qualified instrument technician and am not stupid (although with hindsight the wisdom of giving it to the local mechanic sows seeds of doubt). If nothing else it will let a few know that there are folk out here with worse grief than yours.

[jasper5]

Hi Andy, sorry to hear about your awful experience

Here is how to check your valve timing....this is very much "old school"...

Take off the rocker cover (cam cover) as suggested.

Turn the engine using a 22mm spanner on the crank pulley until the crank pin fits into its slot.

Remove the crank pin for now.

Look at the camshaft and the position of either the front 2 cam lobes or the rear cam lobes (whichever are sticking upwards with the cam pin hole at 8 o clock position).

Now look at the opposite 2 cam lobes eg, number 1 cylinder or number4 cylinder, whichever are now pressing down on the valves, get the 22mm spanner on the crank pulley and gently move the engine backwards and forwards until you feel the cam lobes "rocking" ie, as one is coming up, the other is going down...you want the exact point that they "rock".(Balance).

Next, now you have the "rocking point" check to see if the crank pin will now fit into its hole in the flywheel.
If the pin fits,the timing is correct.

If the pin does not fit, turn the engine until it fits, then remove the timing belt from the cam pulley.
Next, turn the camshaft using a 16mm spanner until you get that rocking point with the cam lobes and refit the timing belt.
Now take out the crank locking pin and do the cam lobe rocking point again and try to fit the crank pin with the rocking point correct, if the crank pin now fits, the valve timing is correct.

Someone may come here and rubbish this suggestion, but this is how we used to set valve timing on engines without marks or locking pins, as I said it's old school method, but it works!

Basically, you need number 1 and number 4 pistons at the top of the cylinder ie, TDC. If when the crank locking pin will fit into its hole, the piston is not at TDC, set number 1 and 4 at TDC and mark it, then take off the belt at the cam pulley and follow the "rocking" procedure.

I hope this helps.

[elmtreeandy]

Thanks Jasper5 for the advice. I will have a look tomorrow and follow what you have said (unless someone comes up with other words of wisdom). It really has been a challenge to keep the car going all this time. Hopefully if I get the timing spot on I may have less difficulty with the wastegate problem. has anyone had experience of the wastegate sticking and causing over boost if so, what is the cure? Thanks again Jasper5.

[shankie]

Andy, your situation sounds almost freakishly like mine. My mechanic has been ill for a couple of weeks and still hasn't got back to me with the prognosis. I'm keen to hear what you find as our issues sound almost identical!

Best of luck. I'll post back here when I hear the answer in a couple of days.

[shankie]

Prognosis: snapped rocker arm on #3. Not anywhere near as big of job as I was fearing. £18 in parts and a couple hours of labour.

The open question to you, engineering fans, is: is there likely to be a relationship between a cam belt change and a single rocker arm snapping, or have I just had bad luck?

[jasper5]

Refer to my original post.

It's possible the valve timing was set wrong, it's also possible that the tension of the belt was incorrect and allowed the belt to jump teeth causing the piston to hit a valve and break a rocker.

Without seeing the engine before it was repaired, it's complete guesswork.

[shankie]

Without seeing the engine before it was repaired, it's complete guesswork.

You're probably right. I think that the solution is going to have to be "accept their case because I didn't see it before it was repaired"

Thank you all for your help. At the very least, I've learned a bit more about engine timing.