Two stroke oil in diesel

[steve_earwig]

I filled up earlier and tipped half a litre of Stihl HP two stroke in there (wasn't Jonsered, I must have used that one up). Here goes...

[stevenlizuk]

I filled up earlier and tipped half a litre of Stihl HP two stroke in there (wasn't Jonsered, I must have used that one up). Here goes...

May the force be with you.

[stevenlizuk]

Hi
"Im all for additives as the fuel across just our domestic suppliers varies so much let alone across europe, i just wish somebody could give a definitive answer on which was best on bot cost and value, ie quality of fuel."


This comment intrigues me, with respect but how to you arrive at this hypothesis, do you have the apparatus and talents of a chemist since I have been involved
in purchasing thousands of gallons of the stuff per week and would not be clever enough to form that opinion save for the long term collection of silt and water that collects in storage tanks which is unavoidable considering the number of times it is handled from the distillation source. That's why we have fuel filters and water traps on vehicles. You can be assured that there are regulations in place for a minimum standard of fuel and that includes even treating it for winter use and Cetane values in all European states. If you doubt this consult Customs and Excise who have some involvement. Also just consider the Billions of pounds spent on it by the transport industry on Bilions of pounds of equipment. Worry not there are plenty of people keeping an eagle eye on this every day.

sorry for getting back on topic

All of us are experienced drivers and most of have a fairly intimate knowledge of our cars and of their characteristics.
In my experience (and from the remarks here others have the same experiences) some fuels do appear to offer less performance than others.
Older engines especially were never designed to run on fuels mixed with bio-diesel and low sulphur fuel mixes so adding these things is certain to have an adverse effect however small, an engine cannot adapt to the latest environmental rulings.
From my own experience I can tell you that my car runs better on Tesco fuel over that of Sainsbury's and runs better than both of those on Esso fuel. Their standard fuels at that, not the so called premium offerings.

If you have an opinion on our ramblings then please offer it but enough of the over the glasses finger wagging please, we're all grown ups.
Chemist I am not but I don't need to be a qualified chemist to know how my car which I have driven every day for the last five years reacts to different fuels.
Fuels as you know must reach a minimum standard, some will exceed this others will stick to it rigidly as a matter of cost. There will therefore naturally be a difference in performance.
If I can add something to my fuel which will counter-act the changes in my purchased fuel I will do it, if only to satisfy myself.

Cheers
Steve

[BruceT]

Im going to put some two stoke oil in the misses wagon tomorrow when I service it.

So only have about 1/2 to 3/4 of a tank though. From what ive read 500ml would still be fine, as it would just burn it as an expensive fuel anyway?

[BruceT]

Would this stuff be ok?

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stor ... yId_165507

[jasper5]

That should be ok Bruce, but I would check out the motorbike and scooter shops....I buy Fuchs Silkolene (API TC & JASO FC is the spec) for my son's scooter, this is fully synthetic and costs £6-50 at my local shop.You can buy a cheaper semi synthetic (cheaper in my area at least).

[TopDonkey]

tesco do 2 stroke oil in 1 litre bottles for £4 i seem to remember, i bought loads of it so havent bought any for about 3 months now

[Littlelad]

Oops no offence intended I was just trying to put a prespective on the subject and I did not want to imply anyone in particular was incapable of making a choice or even experimenting a bit. In reality though there are so many things that can make a vehicle seem smoother from day to day - when I wash and polish my BMW and give it a good valet with windows shining and crystal clear it does seem to go a lot better and even nearly as good as my 406. Diesel burns rather than ignites
in the strictest sense because it is oil and not a vapour, when two stroke is added to a two stroke it has less inclination to burn over the vapour that is ignited by a spark on low compression therefore some sticks to the bearing surfaces and lubricates the surfaces because that's the only way it does not sieze up. Diesel is sprayed in under high pressure and in a highly compressed atmosphere so that it burns at a specific rate and is given a number called cetane. Though any oil will burn it has not been determined to do so in an optimum manner. There is merit in the idea it may provide some small benefit in lubricity to immersed pumps and maybe the high pressure pump. However, when it burns in the cylinder it will deposit laquer and the particulate matter will increase at the exhaust and it may degrade the CAT earlier than expected - just so you know.

[TopDonkey]

As far as i understand it Littlelad, Cetane isnt the speed that the fuel burns at, its the fuels ability to resist compression ignition and it determines the amount of compression needed to get a fuel to spontaneously combust.

And on a 2 stroke engine, the oil in the fuel is used to lubricate all the moving parts BEFORE it is burned in the cylinder!, so it doenst matter how much inclination it has to resist burning, once the fuel-oil mix has been ignited, its spat out the exhaust and thats the end of it.

And if you think that cleaning your BMW makes it seem faster, then you are probably wasting your time putting 2 stroke oil into your diesel, save your money and polish your 406 instead !

[stevenlizuk]

And a bottle of two stroke oil is cheaper than a bottle of decent polish!

[Littlelad]

Hi
Both absolutely right just another way of putting it, I agree wholeheartedly on both counts so why would you put 2 stroke oil in a fourstroke diesel? It would not make the engine feel or sound quieter it is debateable whether the benefits of the diluted oil would extend the life of the pumps, but what is not in doubt is the extra expense and modification of the cetane level of the diesel fuel which is carefully designed to control the knock (pre ignition) of the fuel as Top Donkey has stated which in turn is controlling the rate of burn and the added dirty burn. To accomodate this the HDi is designed with a pre , mid and post injection phase and you really have to know what you are doing when you put additives in since the ECU has been mapped from lengthy trials by the manufacturer.

Go ahead and use it, nothing better than an informed decision. Oh and with the Polish analogy it was only meant to point out that simple phsycology can come into play. More importantly a change in climate temperature can have a huge effect on how an engine "feels" Tesco, ASDA etc don't produce their own diesel, some even buy it from competitors on the open market, they just sell it. I won't use 2 stroke oil in my diesel too expensive and I don't like the vapour trail.

[TopDonkey]

You obviously havent read this thread properly then as i stated that it significantly quietens down noisy injector solenoids, this is a fact based on years of use, not speculation on my part, you are effectively calling me a liar by saying that 'It would not make the engine feel or sound quieter' and to be honest, you are p*ssing me off trying to state your opinion as a fact when you are simply wrong.
the injector solenoids on my wifes Peugeot 807 are very noisy when the engine is under heavy load as it now has 180,000 miles on it, and i have been adding 2 stroke oil for a long time now, each year the emissions are checked at the MOT and have never been higher than the previous year, there is never any visible smoke at night in the following cars headlights, so there is no smoke trail as you stated from using 2 stroke oil, so i conclude that it isnt doing any damage, and that the engine is actually in a better condition because of the oil i add.

Cetane is a measure of how quickly the fuel STARTS to burn, not the burn rate (which indicates how quickly the fuel burns once ignited), they are 2 different things, you are simply wrong !, a quick quote for you copy and pasted below to explain it to you in simple terms.

The cetane number (CN) is an indicator of the quality of a diesel fuel's combustion during ignition while it is under compression. It is one of several important measures of a diesel fuel's quality and specifically indicates the fuel's ignition delay. This is the period of time that elapses between a fuel's injection into the combustion chamber and the start of its combustion. A higher cetane number means that fuel has a shorter ignition delay.

[steve_earwig]

Oh blimey chaps, what's going on?

Injectors quieter but not silent, it used to quieten down when it got to 3.2k but now it gets comparatively louder. No vapour trail that I can see and I floored it looking in the door mirror with a car following.

Incidentally, when I got the car it was as quiet as anything but the first time I filled up it started rattling - queue my hasty appearance on here I did wonder if they'd put something in the fuel to quieten it down and now I think I know what it was. Some of the fuel here really is poor though, I've heard stories of it wrecking injectors so I thought maybe that's what happened. So there's me cursing myself for putting cheaper fuel in it and always buying the expensive stuff from another station ever since

[BruceT]

I put some 2 stroke oil in the 150k miles wagon yesterday. It would appear the engine is quieter and last night we went out i told the misses to boot it and there was no visible smoke from the exhaust in car headlights, usually there is.

[TopDonkey]

Sorry Steve, I got a bit wound up last night about it.

As you are a moderator, feel free to edit or delete my post as needed

Thanks