Two stroke oil in diesel

[steve_earwig]

I'm not really up for modifying or deleting posts (unless it's spam of course), next I'll be correcting people's spelling and then it'll be time to call for the men in white

[TopDonkey]

some of my spelling is rubbish!, so an online spell checker would be a really good idea, but it would drive you mad if you had to correct it all manually

[steve_earwig]

I'm running a UK English spell checker on Firefox 'cos I know mine's gone to siht in the last few years

[Littlelad]

Hello Top Donkey
I'm very, very sorry if I upset you so much I must appologise since I never implied you were a "Liar" I said you were absolutely right in what you said so I don't know where you have got that from - read again. You quite obviously know what you are doing and saying. Of course you will not see a voupor trail unless you overdose even though all two strokes leave a trace does it not, but what you are doing is countering the reduction in sulpher that has been extracted and putting it back in with two stroke oil. You don't have to get upset if someone has a different approach to a subject - that's why we have a democracy - I think.
Was it Stevelizuk who asked for opinions on this to start with? The pros like Jasper would not use it because his reservations are based on long term experience and you should take note. Again on the Cetane value - absolutely with out question you are correct what I meant was you will interfere with this rating by adding two stroke oil, but since I don't have the apparatus or a degree in chemistry I could not tell you which way this would go - up or down - simples. If you raed again I explained that the manufacturers have taken care of the manipulation of this rating by using varying injection phases so you should never have to worry about putting additives in. If you choose to, then you may upset the mapping based on standard diesel. Basically the same as petrol engines where electronic handling of "Knock" is used as opposed to lead - only trying help.
On the side - I read all the time about noisy injectors - this is a myth the injectors themselves make no noise other than a slight click as the valve lifts very slightly , this can be tested by operating them when stationary using a scan tool to compare this with when running knock/rattle is heard - new piezo operated needles are even quieter. The diesel knock associated with a diesel is the fuel burning erractically and bouncing around the combustion chamber not the injectors as some (not all) assume. The HDI combats this by using the affore mentioned phases to spread the burn out and introducing EGR where appropriate.

I was once talking to a guy in a pub who disagreed with me on something and went on to say he had been on an evening car maintenance class for the last few months so he should know

[Littlelad]

Hi Steve Earwig
I was just overstating it to make a point about the vapour trail , the CAT will probably absorb most of the sh...t that's why it's there and also explains why some get through the test ok. Interesting though what you said about the quality over there. Did you ever do a cloud test on a selection - just sample some in a jar for clarity since the main disasters are from poor handling where it's got emulsified and tons of silt in it. There was a point in time where some loony was pushing aglomerators which deliberatly mixed water in the fuel in the belief it put more oxygen in (They used to do this in Spitfires to give more power at altitude) Trouble was it corroded the injectors and pump plungers very badly so it's gone of the radar. We simply don't need to play with stuff today cos they doing very well in research establishments for us. Gracious me there are so many Myths about on the Net.

[teamster1975]

Very interesting read guys!
What I know of diesel operation you could write on a postage stamp so I thank you!

[steve_earwig]

Ah, so that was what those broquet things were about.

It's funny about the vapour trail thing, up 'til recently it was smoking... Maybe I thrashed it enough already

[Littlelad]

Ah, so that was what those broquet things were about.

It's funny about the vapour trail thing, up 'til recently it was smoking... Maybe I thrashed it enough already

Can I just say one more thng on this since it it is valid - If you only use your car on short runs the stuff can accumulate on the CAT if it does not get up to temperature and will exhibit smoke from the tail pipe. Make sure you do go for a run that gets it well up to temperature especially before going for an MOT test. But if you make a habit of not doing this it will cause permanent damage to the CAT.

[stevenlizuk]

What have I started!

At this point I have to say that my third gear "smoke-on" has definitely subsided and that my tinny engine rattles have all but gone.
Being an older car with the 2.1 not the crappy HDI (sorry D9ers) with a tally of 180k so far I have to say at this point it has made a difference to my car.
Whether the more advanced HDI would benefit as much I don't know as no doubt that the ECU is a more thorough beast when it comes to controlling fuel flow and monitoring the combustion process.
The car always gets what it needs mechanically and service wise so it's not as though the engine has been in need of a clean out, I never allow it to get to the point where the car would need that kind of treatment.
Point being from this is that the injectors haven't suddenly been cleaned out by the 2 stroke oil and I'm merely feeling this.

I leave the floor open.......

[TopDonkey]

Interesting article below


due to the pollution control measures of the EC diesel-oil is nearly sulphur free and contains up to 5% of bio-diesel. Sulphur has the property to grease the high pressure injection pump and the injectors. Without sulphur, the reduced greasing property of the new diesel has already shown negativ impacts on the long-term stability of the injectors and the high pressure pump. The pump manufacturers have tried to react by lining the moving parts of the pumps with teflon or other suitable material. However, the long term stability is still not achieved as with the old (sulphor contained) diesel.
The engine-research centre of a well known German car manufacurer has conducted some long term tests of diesel additives to find out whether any one of them will have an impact on the long term reliability of the diesel engine components. This introduction to explain were my information comes from.
The results of this research: any diesel additive of any manufacturer presently on the market is not worth the money!
BUT: 2-stroke oil, which we use in our motor saws, lawn mower or in 2-stroke motor engines has shown to have an extreme positive impact on diesel engines, if such 2-stroke oil is added to the diesel in a homoeophatic dosis of 1:200. In practical terms: 0,300 litre of 2-stroke oil into the 70l diesel tank. The 2-stroke oil will be absorbed by the diesel (emulsion) and grease every moving part of the high pressure pump and the injectors.
Besides this, the 2-stroke oil will keep the diesel engine clean, as it burnes cleaner as the diesel itself.
In other words, the 2-stroke oil has a much lower ash-content as diesel, when burned. This proven fact delays the DPF (diesel particulate (soot) filter) to clogg, and the "burn free" process of the DPF will be much less.
One more information: in Germany we have to present our cars every 2 years to the TUV -Technical Supervision Organisation - who will check, amongs others, the pollution of petrol and diesel engines.
The measured cloud-factor of a diesel engine without use of 2-stroke oil has been 0,95.
The same factor with the use of 2-stroke oil has been 0,47 - reduction of nearly half of the soot particles.
Besides this, the use of 2-stroke oil in the diesel will increase the milage by 3-5%.


and more :-
You may all know that Mercedes Benz have conducted in 2007 a long distance reliability test with a number of Mercedes E-Class 320 cdi from Paris to Beijing. Due to the fact that the diesel quality in East European Countries, Russia and China does not meet the DIN requirements, and Mercedes did not want to take the risk of their engines to flopp due to lousy fuel, the total tour has been accompanied by diesel tanks to re-fuel the E-Class cdi's. Selected members of the Mercedes clientele could apply to participate in selected parts of this test-tour, and advocats and notaries had to certify the correctness of this long term reliability test.
Although Mercedes does not like it published or made public, it is a fact that the diesel-fuel used for this test did contain 2-stroke oil to grease the high pressure pump components and to keep the engines clean during this marathon.
Why our car manufacturers do not officially allow the homoeophatic addition of 2-stroke oil to the diesel fuel has many reasons, mostly of legal nature. Besides this, which car manufacturer has any interest in excessive reliability of their engines? Their repair shops will have great problems.
Meanwhile the "2-stroke-oil to diesel" issue has attracted the interest of a number of Universities in Germany, as this 2-stroke oil has shown to have amazing poperties if added in a small dosis to diesel fuel (1:200), especially the positive impact on air pollution, reduced fuel consumption and improved long term reliability of the diesel engine. The pro and con discussions will go on for a while. But as soon as an accademic report has been published by one of our Universities, this will change very fast.
By the way: all car manufacturers reject the addition of any fuel "additive" in their cars, and warn that guarantee MAY be affected. Nobody says, that guarantee WILL be rejected. 2-stroke oil in its properties is not an additive, as you add oil to oil if you "dope" you fuel with a dosis of 2-stroke oil. The dosis of 2-stroke oil in your diesel-fuel is very difficult to analyse, as every (chemical) analysis has the main function to identify substances which are harmful. But 2-stroke oil has proven not to be harmful at all, on the contrary!
Personally, I use 2-stroke oil now for many years in all of my diesel cars (my present business car is a Mercedes 320 cdi DPF Automatic). And I never had any problems whatsoever.

[stevenlizuk]

This is the very article which made me think it might be worth a try.
The link I had was forwarded to me by a mechanic friend who had found it on a Freelander forum.
Having said that in a Freelander you're happy to see it get through a tank of diesel without the doors falling off

Once again........

[Littlelad]

Hi Top Donkey
I have seen these reports and the development will go on but you have to understand that in Germany (NOt UK yet) they have made strides to going along the lines of 5% Biofuel and the manufacturers have been faced with many problems to accommodate this, one of which is to change the material of all the seals and as you correctly point out also using Teflon in the HP pumps. Here in the UK we still have a choice and have tried to maintain a high quality straight diesel fuel until it runs out. The figures for sales of diesel cars have plummeted simply because they are taxing the stuff to maintain equilibrium with Petrol so there is no benefit to having one and also manufacturers are working with hands tied behind their backs on emmissions. The next generation of diesels (At least in trucks) is being taken to using pressures of 2000bar in an attempt to keep up. I've seen no official mention for the use of two stroke oil. For many years when someone had inadvertantly put a gallon of petrol in their diesel we used to compensate by bunging some redex in as a short term measure which did the job until it was cleared, albeit with good deal of white smoke, but that was long before Common rail.
You carry on putting your Two stroke in and sleep tight, they'll keep taking your money.

[TopDonkey]

There are a lot of people putting 2 stroke oil into their diesel nowdays on both agricultural diesels (dw9's ) and on common rail high pressure systems across all sorts of makes of cars, and on that basis you would expect those same people to be complaining about mechanical faliures and stories of emissions failures at mot time, but i have done about half an hour of searching the internet and havent found a single comment or post anywhere about anyone having a problem after putting 2 stroke oil into their diesel, in fact to the contrary, i can only find some saying yes there is an improvement, or that they noticed no difference

My wife is a child minder and drives her 807 hdi on journeys of 1.1 mile 6 times per day 5 days a week to do the school runs and pickups and the car is used exclusively for this and for the last 3 years i have been adding 2 stroke oil (ask i said previously), and i just checked the emissions tests on the last 3 MOT's and the emissions are actually going down each year. If its blocking the cats, and doing all this clogging and damage you suggest, then how do you explain the lower emissions ??

[stevenlizuk]

As a side issue I've just had my first mug of Ovaltine, it's horrible!

No idea if it would quieten my solenoids.

[steve_earwig]

Tip half a litre in your tank and see