The Rattly Tank Passed It's MOT!

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steve_earwig
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Re: The Rattly Tank Passed It's MOT!

Post by steve_earwig »

Like the Ashtray I was watching them do in the workshop the other day (new drums, warped, what did you expect for 18 quid? :roll: )

This is bugging me, so I'm going to bug you guys with it too :P

I've been wondering what's so wrong with the 406 drum-in-disk handbrake, the cable set up is a bit odd but, thinking about it, I can't see any real problem with it. So it's the brake itself. On the normal drum brake the handbrake is done the usual way, with a 4 or 5 inch long lever that pushes the shoes against the drum. On the d-i-d (getting lazy now), the lever is there, but it's less than an inch long :shock: No wonder they're crap. Then there's that really strong spring, does it need to be that strong? I reckon that half the time the 406 d-i-d handbrake doesn't work because the handbrake feels like it's doing something but all it's doing is stretching this spring, when it starts pushing the shoes it goes really tight and people usually think that's the lot. Get out, lock car, watch it roll away down the hill.

What did the 405 have? Handbrake through calliper (there must a teknickle term for this). What does the 407 have? Handbrake through calliper. :roll:

I also noticed the rear pads for the 607 are the same as the 406. Looking in service box the earlier 607 had a very familiar set up (the calliper looks similar but it isn't the same apparently, the nearest is a Mercedes Vito which just seems to have the bleed in a different place), while the facelifted 607 has a completely different calliper on a carrier, with the handbrake through the piston.

Btw, the earlier and facelifted 607s are Z8 and Z9, how cool is that?

The callipers on the Z8 are held on with one M10 and one M12 bolt, just like the 406. The Z9 ones, well, the carriers, are held on by 2xM12s. The hub carrier also has a different part number but maybe that's just the hole. The other issue is the disk is 12mm, while the Z8 and 406 are 10. Same diameter though. Oh, and the piston is 38, compared to 33mm, I think that means the force on them will be greater (one of those fluid dynamics paradox things), which kind of says the rear brakes might be more inclined to lock up but hey, they got ABS so who cares. Also, if the rears are doing more work, they might actually stay clean, rather than rusting away like they seem to enjoy doing.

The handbrake cables also look a similar set up.

If I was back in blighty I could troll along to the breakers with a tape measure but I can't do that here.

I've also thought about changing the existing handbrakes to a better set up but that rather implies serious modifications to the backplates.

Any thoughts?

Incidently, these people seem to have some reasonable prices. Brembo pad fitting kits 12 quid plus v&t?
Unskilled meddling sin©e 2007

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jasper5
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Re: The Rattly Tank Passed It's MOT!

Post by jasper5 »

The thing is that the 406 has the same operating system as the older Volvo, BMW, Vauxhall Vectra, and many others, usually they work very well, strangely, from my experience, it's the disc and caliper type handbrakes that give most trouble.
These days the handbrake mechanism is....as you rightly said....more often the caliper and disc type....most of them, including the 407, are the same type of caliper, ie if you look at a VW, a Renault, a Citroen, or even a Ford Focus, you will see that they all look very similar, even similar pads, but they all look and work the same.From my experience, they all suffer from a common fault...the right hand side caliper sticks on, i've seen this many times with all makes of car with that caliper setup, also the pads need to be freed off regular as they rust into their fittings.

Brakes International are very good, if you can't get anything you need over there I can get anything you need, they closed their branch in my area due to the intense competition that there is in the motor trade where I live...parts suppliers and garages everywhere.
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Re: The Rattly Tank Passed It's MOT!

Post by steve_earwig »

So we're screwed either way, that's neat :( Ah well, I have a large supply of house bricks.

Don't worry mate, I have no trouble finding people that will send me stuff here. It's the 62 quid upwards (at today's exchange rate) customs fee that I can't get around :( :(
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jasper5
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Re: The Rattly Tank Passed It's MOT!

Post by jasper5 »

steve_earwig wrote:
Don't worry mate, I have no trouble finding people that will send me stuff here. It's the 62 quid upwards (at today's exchange rate) customs fee that I can't get around :( :(

Jeeezzzz, 62 quid customs fee :frown: I never had that problem sending stuff to my son in Sweden.

I found out the other day that there are a bunch of Polish guys buying up damaged and scrap cars to break up for parts and send them out to Poland....not that it relates to any of this, but I found it interesting. I tried to get into an industrial estate the other day but a huge Polish truck was blocking the entrance, the other guys were complaining about them blocking everything up with scrap cars and huge trucks.
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DiscoPol
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Re: The Rattly Tank Passed It's MOT!

Post by DiscoPol »

ah, attack of the jams. i know it well.

if its cheaper here let me know im up for posting anything u need.


Dan

(pi$$ed on polish lager again so i vouch for nothing)
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Re: The Rattly Tank Passed It's MOT!

Post by steve_earwig »

New law as of last year, they gave me some testicles about people mooring up on the coast as a floating car parts shop. How that means they get to crucify private individuals importing small stuff for themselves is anyone's guess. Another Mercedes for someone I guess.

Sweden and Poland are inside the EU...
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Re: The Rattly Tank Passed It's MOT!

Post by jasper5 »

steve_earwig wrote:
Sweden and Poland are inside the EU...

Good point.
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Re: The Rattly Tank Passed It's MOT!

Post by mjb »

My personal opinion is that the problem with the 406's useless handbrake stems from the backplate. I suspect when you pull the lever and tension the shoes, they push back on the backplate which then goes and bends, relieving some pressure on the drums.

I'd like to try fitting my car with a £180 pair of brand new backplates to test my theory, but it's a lot of money, and would involve having to go through shoe spring hell again...
<steve_earwig> I think this forum is more about keeping our cars going with minimal outlay than giving our cars more reason to go bang
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Re: The Rattly Tank Passed It's MOT!

Post by steve_earwig »

ooh, ooh, ohh, hold on...

I'll save you the bother:
Image

Thinking about it, when the handbrake is on only one shoe is touching on one place, on the platform in front of the spreader.. all that weight!
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Re: The Rattly Tank Passed It's MOT!

Post by mjb »

Is that what a backplate SHOULD look like? :shock:
<steve_earwig> I think this forum is more about keeping our cars going with minimal outlay than giving our cars more reason to go bang
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