Wobble when idling (faulty injectors) Now Sorted!

[OdinEidolon]

Result Doggy

I'm pleased it worked out for you, and makes the owning of a 16v HDi a bit more appealing

Is this a common fault on 2.2 HDis?

[Doggy]

I have no idea how common it is, not heard of anyone else with the problem, but then there are so few DW12 owners on this forum and probably only 50 or so on the coupe forum, so who knows?

The engine is also found in 607's, 806's and Citreon C5 / C8's. Bosch 0445110036 injectors are unique to these models, AFAIK.

[plod]

I thought they were renowned for being "almost" impossible to remove
Nice to be proved wrong
Maybe it's just a case of soaking in WD40 over a few days as Doggy did, which a garage probably wouldn't really have that as an option in most cases

[Doggy]

Well I've now been back at work for most of this week and have some comapartive mpg data. Before the injector swap, the situation had deteriorated from my typical 42/43 mpg to 36.7. and this despite keeping it below 70 on the A14 & just about 60 elsewhere.

Today the average sits at 44.1, (even briefly saw 44.8 yesterday).

[Welly]

What a great fix, nice one. Did you see those injectors on that there website I found on Bailes's thread? they were £90.00 each - not great but much much less than I thought.

[Doggy]

Yes, I did check that out - did you notice it's only £90 if they recon yours and you send them first, otherwise £50 each 'deposit' refundable when they get yours AND deem them reconditionable, otherwise +£100 each outright purchase.

I got mine for less from Ade the coupe breaker, (& still hope to recoup something on the old ones).

[puggy]

The length's doggy is going to so that he can beat my beast !!! tut tut

[Doggy]

Puggy, this has nothing to do with trying to beat anything. I'ts more to do with achieving whisper-quiet noise levels.

(Thus allowing me to sneak up on that clatterpillar of yours).

[puggy]

that fooking cracked me up !!!

[OdinEidolon]

Changed the injectors today - had a similar problem to doggy's.
HUGE thanks to Eric himself who DONATED his old two working injectors to me, even paying the shipping. Great guy.

So, I removed injector 1 and 2 (on the left sitting inside the car, far from the oil filler cap) and replaced them, no joy. Problem still there. Injectors came out virtually effortlessly.

Then I proceeded to change injector 3, still came out with small force applied. Injector number 4 was in this state:



(liquid stuff is WD40 most likely) As you can see lots of (oil and/or diesel???) were in the fourth injector well, compared to the other wells which were clean. I suspect:
- oil leak from oil cap
- oil leak from head gasket
- fuel leak from retrn hose which misteriously is missing the retaining clip (but still seems solid in place)

I was betting number 4 was the problem and that it was stuck in place.

I was right. Impossible to remove folks. I mean, zero nicht niente nada null. It DID move a little (up 1mm) with a lot of stress, but that's it.
We bended a 0.8cm diameter steel full pipe (the one that goes inside walls) trying to get it out.

We decided to unscrew the inside out torx screws using a torx screw bolted on a power drill (a heck of a powerful drill my friend gave me). I think we destroyed 5 6mm torx screws trying to unscrew that damn thing, it did not move at all.
My friend's father came to help (hydraulic / mechanic / electrician etc.), but could do nothing.

I guess some of the oily gunk has gotten past the injector seal and burnt it in place and sealed it perectly.


The car's going to the injector specialist next wee, he should have the specific tool for my engine.

While I was at it I changed air and polle filter, fitted strut brace and new gear knob. We wanted to fit a new steering wheel but I grabbed the wrong one from my garage. By the way anyone knows how to remove the steering wheel?

[Doggy]

That's a pity Adriano, hope you manage to get it fixed.

I guess by now you know it's not any of the other 3 at fault? - would it not be worth trying a leak-off test to confirm No. 4 is your problem?

(If it costs you a great deal of time / money to get it out and the problem is still there, you will not be very happy).

[OdinEidolon]

That's a pity Adriano, hope you manage to get it fixed.

I guess by now you know it's not any of the other 3 at fault? - would it not be worth trying a leak-off test to confirm No. 4 is your problem?

(If it costs you a great deal of time / money to get it out and the problem is still there, you will not be very happy).

I changed them with yours so, if the problem is in the injector, then it is either in number 4 ouly or in number 4 and number 2 (because of how I exchanged them), of course assuming those you gave me were good, which they really seem to be. Injector number one seemed much more grotty than number 2 but seemed to do its job. The injector setup

(a and b are your injectors, after the "|" are the injectors not installed)

original 4 3 2 1 | a b
first try 4 3 a b | 1 2
sec try 4 2 a b | 1 3

It shouldn't cost much. I'll ask the specialist, he's a good guy, we'll see. If he asks too mcuh for taking it out then I'll leak test them just to make sure. Problem is the summer's ending and I am once again studying like hell, I do not have much time.

[OdinEidolon]

So been to the injector specialist. I described the problem the car has and the issue with getting out the worn injector.

He first said: "I don'tthink the injector's are at fault, it must be something else."
Well I did reproduce the problem in a sec (pretty easy: get a straight stretch of road and do a 0-60 full throttle) to convince him, the car was then wobbling a lot.

He took a look. He got his hands aroud my dear engine and... he disconnected the fourth (believed to be faulty) injector electric plug!
He's a fool I was thinking, but then surprisingly the engine kept going. What? He plugged it back and disconnected the third. Engine died.

So the car's using only three cylinders when it wobbles. No wonder the engine is noisy and the drive is slow when that happens!

Fact is he doesn't have the tool to exctract that injector type- it costs around 1800€.
He says noone in the region has it apart from a guy, and he gave me the phone number. I'll try to ring him next days. Hope it's not going to cost me a lot.

[Doggy]

I tried disconnecting injectors in turn when I had my problem - I didn't do it with th engine running, but stopped & restarted with a plug off. In every case, the engine ran much worse, the ecu fault light lit immediately and the ecu logged an open-circuit injector fault.

I reasoned from this that if there was an intermittent woring problem, the car would have 'told' me.

I can only assume from your description that the injector solenoid coil is intact, just that the needle is not moving when your fault occurs. I assume you have measurd the coil resistances and checked they are all the same?

[OdinEidolon]

I tried disconnecting injectors in turn when I had my problem - I didn't do it with th engine running, but stopped & restarted with a plug off. In every case, the engine ran much worse, the ecu fault light lit immediately and the ecu logged an open-circuit injector fault.

I reasoned from this that if there was an intermittent woring problem, the car would have 'told' me.

I can only assume from your description that the injector solenoid coil is intact, just that the needle is not moving when your fault occurs. I assume you have measurd the coil resistances and checked they are all the same?

Erm... nope. How? Just plug the multimeter to the injector connector unplgged?