2.1td lucas to bosch pump swap?

[weejimmy]

i used the 2.1 lucas mount and just moved the threads to the other holes for the bosh,
also used the stock 2.1 timing belt cover with no issues.

save geting it posted half way round the world

[Doggy]

Right, the 406 pump is partly electronic in that the senser on top (next to the mushroom thing) controles the EGR valve via the EUC, other than that they are almost the same, both pumps can be used on the 2.1 convertion.
Oh and the 406 and some of the 405 pumps will have the immobaliser thing on it and will have to be removed (it's behind the heavy stealwork on the rear of the pump), untill you do this you can't get to the stop solinide.

'Scuse the hijack

Does this mean that a standard 406TD can be tuned in exactly the same way as a 405 / Bosch-equiped 306?

Has anyone done it?

[weejimmy]

yes it stil has the max fule screw and same lda set up and same gov if you want to shim it, etc etc
i think you could rip all the ecu crap off it and just use it like a normal self advancing pump.
ive striped one down to a bare casing and theres no internal difrences.

[mark21TD]

Yes it can be tuned just like the 405 / 306,
you can also change the internals for ones from a Ford Transit, something about the the pump diamiter being 11mm instead of 9mm so more fuel delivered, but you still use the 1.9 distributer part.
I've got the Email address of a guy on a 306 forum that knows all about it but not got in touch with him yet.
I'll post all the info I get from him so all can see.

Have a look at this thread from the frenchcarforum about pump rebuild
http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... hp?t=28590

[weejimmy]

yes you can use a head from a 11/12mm pump but its not an easy job.
id say defo try the gov mod first and if you have ANY problems with doing that yourself dont touch the head.
its very coplex and every little shim needs to be correct size etc.

pluss i dont theres much need to go more than just the stage 1 + gov mod.

[wlb]

Hi
Maybe you are sorted by now in Australia....
I had my 406 STDT wagon converted by Morassi and Wiliams in Williamstown, Victoria.
Easily found with google.
$1600 cash including a pump rebuild (I supplied the pump)
Lucas injectors
5% loss of power
Similar economy (i run it on biodiesel)
Tacho works up to 3000 rpm then drops to 0 till next start
ECU light on constantly
Plenty of pumps on Ebay UK. Mount. sprocket, pipes about 80 pounds.
Hope that helps all downunder!
Carl

Thanks Carl. No, I'm still just collecting information. The current Lucas pump that was fitted 2 1/2 years ago is still running okay.
I have a 405 Bosch pump on hand just in case, and a Xantia pump being held by a friend in the UK.
I haven't checked here for awhile. The notification thing doesn't seem to have worked so I didn't realize there had been new posts.

Warwick.

[STALLED]

Julian on AF did the conversion in his 406 STDT using the 1.9TD pump from a 405 - He documented the conversion pretty well I thought! I think he even had the tacho working, although could not get the engine light to go out!

Considering the silly money which 406's are going for these days here in Australia, it's starting to get to the point (especially in the high mileage cars) as to if it is worth it. $1600 seems reasonable for the conversion, but the other prices for 4K+ are more than half the value of the car!

Welcome to 406oc - From another Aussie

[wlb]

"Stalled"? - Is that you J**l?
You're a long way from home.

Yes, Julian and I exchanged e-mails during and after. He sent me some good photos. Not sure if he ended up selling it, but I think he became a victim of bad timing - like me. He got the conversion done successfully which resulted in a very good car and a disaster averted, but that coincided with the problems associated with 406 2.1 diesels becoming more widely known resulting in people steering clear of them and prices plummetting.

My misfortune was that mine failed early in the piece, before the problem was widely known. I blamed it on our change to ULSD fuel and sourced another Lucas pump from the UK. Morassi & Williams had only just started doing their conversions. I even spoke to them. If mine had failed 6 months later I would have been straight into a 405 conversion and it would all be behind me by now.

I've been talking to Ian in Brisbane for a few months. He had a 1999 model with only 130,000km on the clock when the pump went. Someone who has a 405 pump on hand just bought it for $2,250 via AF. An absolute bargain.

I've become a grumpy old man I think. I prefer playing with my old P5B, where you expect to find Lucas products, and when you do they are easy to remove and fix. I'm now seriously considering finding a good 505 SRDT (sold last one 6 years ago) and forgetting about anything built after the '80s. However, Leon (AF dieselman) seems to be hoarding them. It just isn't fair.

Warwick.

[STALLED]

Leon is a top bloke - met him a couple of times and his white GTD is in fantastic condition!

Who ever got the green STDT for 2.2k had a good deal - could get it back on the road for 4k, including the price of the car if you were good with your hands! Furthermore, the low KM on the clock is almost unheard of when it comes to Pug diesels here - I think Julian's car was close to the 400k mark when it was for sale.

As for being a grumpy old man - I understand. I feel like a change from the 406, but can't bring myself to sell it. MX5 with a cage for some motorsport work is all too tempting these days

[wlb]

Leon! You're not wrong there.
He helped me out enormously last Easter when the heater core let go all over the floor. Thanks to the photos he sent me of a 406 he had partly dismantled, I was able to identify the locations of all those cleverly hidden lower facia screws and exercise some keyhole surgery to get things apart.

As for your MX5 idea.
Good car but now far too modern for me. What you need is an old Peugeot like this one. Doesn't even need a roll-cage.

[weejimmy]

just finished a lucas to bosh conversion for somone with added advance and govnor mods,
it will advance an extra 2-3 deg and pull hard much higher in the revs, not sure what revs as it still cuts at 3k rpm
but what an improvment over the lucas. and id have to recomend the govnor shimming mod.

[750frog]

hi folks!
Bosch pump, lines and injectors are on, but car doesn't want to start The mechanic I've got to do it says he's timed the pump up, but it looks like all he's done is line up the holes in the sprockets and bolt them down so everything was bolted down at TDC, but there's more to it than that, isn't there? Surely you need a gauge in the back of the pump to properly set up the diesel timing? Any ideas would be appreciated! (The system has been bled, there's no airlock or leaks and it's on jump leads from an industrial jump starter, before anyone pokes the finger at that!)

HELP I am at this stage as well. I have timed the pump with the dial guage and everything is connected. But no go! PLEASE tell me how to fix it!

ARGH!

[wlb]

750frog,

I'll add a link here http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showth ... post962459 back to your thread on the AussieFrogs forum because it now includes the resurrected thread from 2009 that contained a lot of valuable info on this conversion. That thread was lost in a server crash in 2010.

[750frog]

OK,

So I bought a reco pump listed for a citroen with the 2.1TD motor (XM) in it from dieseljones.co.uk. Postage and part was 700 pounds! Put it on and timed it up. The car went like a bag o shyte! But.... advanced the timing a bit and it goes GREAT! Gonna advance it some more when I get the chance and it should be fine.

On the hunt for an early 406 (with the bosch pump) ecu so my tacho actually works. No rush but would love the car to be all sweet.

If I had to do this again I reckon it would take a day max! Order the pump and leave the old pump in until it arrives (if you can). Then drop the new pump in and time it all up and fiddle with the accelerator cable and you are all set!

Much easier than I thought it would be.

[750frog]

Thanks for all the help.
The 406 STDT didn't have an immobilizer keypad in Australia, although I think that it does detect the correct igntion key.
So it could well be that the pump I have pictured above will work.
You see the problem is that 405 pumps are now scarce in Australia and the Xantia pump probably even scarcer. This means that anything I use will almost certainly need to be sourced from the UK.
Does anyone know what the Bosch model number is for the pump in the photo? Without knowing that it's hard to discuss conversion with diesel workshops down here.

Edit ...
I think I've found my answer. This pump is the AS3 VP20, isn't it?
That means it's not going to be much help to me at all as it still needs an ECU, albeit a more reliable Bosch one.

So it's back to my search for a 405 or Xantia VE pump and injectors.

www.dieseljones.co.uk

Got one for a 2.1 citroen for $1000 delivered to my door!