Clutch on 406 V6

[KABISA]

Car has been in my garage for 4 wks while in hospital. On staring it up, I cant get into any gear unless the engine is turned off. It had major service just before went into hospital and was driving it around before going into hospital with no problems. What has happened?

[jasper5]

Does the clutch pedal feel normal? If it does, my guess would be that the clutch plate has rusted onto the flywheel or pressure plate (quite common if you lay up a vehicle for a while), having said that 4 weeks isn't a lot.
If the clutch pedal is very slack, you may have a hydraulics problem, check the fluid level.

If everything seems normal, try running the engine for a while until everything is hot, then keep trying to select a gear.

If all else fails, I can tell you a method to free off the clutch, but it isn't for the faint hearted.

[steve_earwig]

Bunny hops anyone?

[KABISA]

Thanks Jasper5, I recall first getting in car after the 4 wks and thinking "the clutch doesn't feel the same"...exactly one of your comments!! I have tried with the operating temp normal and the car all warmed up and did manage to go through the gears, but really difficult and dangerous on the road. It's a fab car and in 7 years have NEVER had a problem apart from exhaust and radiator....not bad for a '99 car. I wouldnt say the clutch pedal is very slack but it certainly goes down easier than before. If its a hydrolics problem, does that mean a Master Cylinder? If so, I am being told by Peugeot that they have STOPPED making this part for the V6....and no replacement either!!!!!! That sounds crazy to me.

[jasper5]

Could be the slave cylinder faulty, mjb is the V6 expert. Do a search and you will find a fair bit of info on this, I think.

[mjb]

Is it a D8 or D9?

First thing to do is open the bonnet, pull the air filter box up at the front, and check all around the slave cylinder (big round lump of black plastic the size of a Red Bull can, going into the gearbox) for brake fluid. If you see any around the area, you either need a new slave cylinder (£20 for D9) or if it's a D8 you'll need a whole new assembly (about £200 with a long lead time from dealers, or can be taken from another D8 V6 in a scrap yard)

If there's no sign of fluid escaping, take the slave cylinder out - push it in HARD and turn about 1/8 turn anticlockwise. On D9s you'll need to free up the piping as much as possible and you'll probably end up bending it a bit too. No biggie, but be careful. Once the cylinder's out, stick your finger in the hole (with the engine off of course!!!) and you'll feel the release fork. It should be about an inch or so in, and completely unmovable with your fingers. If it's moving (unlikely, else the pedal will be solid) or buried about 2" down then your release bearing has parted from the pressure plate. You can TRY re-attaching it by removing the n/s wheelarch liner for access, lowering the gearbox on the mount, and using some thick mains cable looped around the back of the fork to pull it with EXTREME force using your entire body, like lifting a bar bell with a few hundred KG on... If that doesn't work, you'll be wanting a new release bearing (may as well buy a new clutch and driveshaft seals etc as it's a huge job to change - see the howto)

If the release fork seems ok, then I'd guess your problem may lie with the master cylinder. If they've stopped making them, you'll want to ask ade2211 over on the coupe club forum for one - he's a 406 coupe specialist breaker.

If you have a D9 and £20 to spend, try bleeding the fluid followed by a new slave cylinder first (cheaper from the dealers than factors ). They're pretty weak. Be aware that the D9 fluid reservoir is horribly designed, and when bleeding you'll want to jack the n/s front of the car as high as you can get it. Only bleed it a maximum of 5 pedal pumps at a time between fluid top-ups (fill it to the rim!), and pull the front of the reservoir up as you top it up to release the trapped air.

[mjb]

Actually, that doesn't read too well...

1) Check for fluid leaking
2) Bleed if D9
3) Feel fork
(presuming the fork isn't too deep or loose)
4) Replace slave if D9 / replace hydraulic system if D8
5) Replace master if D9

[KABISA]

JASPER5/MJB.....crikey you guys, thanks for all the info. There's some pretty technical stuff in there and potentially a job I couldn't handle. After reading all your advice, I will take it into Peugeot where I bought it from in '97 and where it has always been serviced, very well I would add, and ask them to confirm what the problem is. I will then take it from there. I have also been advised by Peugeot via France that this part is NO LONGER made by them. But knowing my luck, it's bound to be the Master Cylinder!!!! I will keep you guys informed as to what the problem turns out to be, so keep checking out the sight. Once again, thanks a million for the help.

[steve_earwig]

'97, that's a D8 then, and it looks like the sealed system type is no longer supplied:

2095 55 NFP - INJECTION ES9J4 AND BVM ML5T AND RIGHT HAND DRIVE

Looks like you can still get a LHD one though How stupid is that?

Hmm, this could get complicated.

[mjb]

Thought someone on here bought a new one a few weeks ago?


The good thing with D8s though is the whole system is a piece of cake to change and doesn't involve faffing around bleeding stuff

[steve_earwig]

Thought someone on here bought a new one a few weeks ago?

I think that was for a 2.1td.

The good thing with D8s though is the whole system is a piece of cake to change and doesn't involve faffing around bleeding stuff

But then it becomes a bad thing 'cos you can't just replace one bit.

I'm rather peeved Pug aren't supporting D8s now, I know clips and stuff like that went a while back but the clutch hydraulics is a bit major. Hope something can be figured out for it.

[mjb]

I'm rather peeved Pug aren't supporting D8s now, I know clips and stuff like that went a while back but the clutch hydraulics is a bit major. Hope something can be figured out for it.

it wouldn't surprise me if they stopped making the parts before they stopped making the cars, and have just had the bits sitting in warehouses since then...

Actually I've been pondering the feasibility of shoving a D9 hydraulic setup into a D8. As long as the master cylinder mount in the bulkhead is the same, it should be quite straightforward and just need the cylinders, pipes and a new fluid reservoir...

[steve_earwig]

it wouldn't surprise me if they stopped making the parts before they stopped making the cars, and have just had the bits sitting in warehouses since then...

Nah, they aren't Talbot, they did that to Avenger body panels. Hold on a mo, they bluddy well are!

Actually I've been pondering the feasibility of shoving a D9 hydraulic setup into a D8. As long as the master cylinder mount in the bulkhead is the same, it should be quite straightforward and just need the cylinders, pipes and a new fluid reservoir...

Ditto, looks like a different pedal box though. That bit's not impossible, worse is it looks different the clutch end too.

[steve_earwig]

I've been investigating...
The clutch forks are the same, the bell housing is the same except ML5C, the slave cylinders are the same except EW12J4... So basically the slave from a D9 ES9J4, an ES9J4S, a DW10ATED or a DW12ATED should fit.

It will have a bleed nipple

The master cylinder though, the brake diagram says it's the same box but with a different pedal, the clutch diagram says it's a different box and a different pedal. If it is the same box then it'll probably need a D9 pedal. Unfortunately it looks like the earlier m/cylinder reservoir is Bosch, the later one, with the take off feed for the clutch hydraulics is Teeves

I reckon, if the master cylinder does fit, either use the original reservoir or a brake reservoir from a bike

IBWHTH!

[mjb]

I've been investigating...
The clutch forks are the same, the bell housing is the same except ML5C, the slave cylinders are the same except EW12J4... So basically the slave from a D9 ES9J4, an ES9J4S, a DW10ATED or a DW12ATED should fit.

I think the pipework for the V6s is different to that on the diesels, so it wouldn't fit unless you chopped the rear cylinder bank off or something