Clinking from Exhaust Manifold 2L - fixed!

reloaded · Post by **reloaded** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:34 pm

Hi all,

I have a 2L Coupe D9 W plate with 65k on the clock, shes a lovely car but recently it has developed a problem...

When cold the engine runs smooth and quite but when I get her toasty hot I get a clinking under load, doesnt matter what gear or what speed im doing and is worse the hotter the engine gets. The clinking also related to the revs pulled at the time, but the higher I rev the less audible it is as the load is reduced.

If i drive at 50 for a while shes quite again as the temprature drops slightly.

I've had a mechanic out with a listening device and he says all the noise comes from the manifold but stresses that it may not be the manifold but could be coming from inside. He also claimes the manifold is not blowing at the gasket or studs.

I have replaced the whole exhaust inc cat but not the manifold. When replacing the cat the garage claimed to of found a small arc of weld, from the inside of a 2-3 inch pipe that had smashed the inside of the old cat.

Help me before I down tools and part ex her!

Thanks in advance
Dan

johnsav · Post by **johnsav** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:50 pm

when you say "clink" do you mean the engine is pinking?

reloaded · Post by **reloaded** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:00 pm

Although it sounds a little like pinking, I have tried the usual here, changed to 97ron fuel, slopped in some injector cleaner twice, put valve and lifter cleaner in the oil. None of these have any effect at all.

I would hope that my mechanic guy would be able to identify pinking but you never know

. apart from the above is their anything else I can do to rule this out?

Thanks again
Dan

johnsav · Post by **johnsav** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:03 pm

no not really to be honest.... and in reality the knock sensor will adjust the timing to suit the fuel so that shouldnt make a difference.....

are you using the correct grade of oil for these engines?

johnsav · Post by **johnsav** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:09 pm

also dont like it when you mention the engine heating up... is it overheating? if so id reccomend getting a compression test done to check your head gasket.. this can cause pinking under load
another thing is obviously injectors affecting the air/fuel ratio.. how many miles you done?

reloaded · Post by **reloaded** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:09 pm

Not sure TBH,

Last service was and intermitant one at 62k, The book does have a full set of service stamps by Pug, not that that means much due to the poor quality of our dealers.

You suggestion does have merit, perhaps the oil could be getting thin at higher temps and not protecting all the components, also as the oil gets older it could get worse I guess, but why would the sound only come from the manifold area and noware else? surely the 1st victim of poor oil would be the tappets.

Dan

johnsav · Post by **johnsav** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:10 pm

check my message above

reloaded · Post by **reloaded** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:12 pm

johnsav wrote:also dont like it when you mention the engine heating up... is it overheating? if so id reccomend getting a compression test done to check your head gasket.. this can cause pinking under load
another thing is obviously injectors... how many miles you done?

Its not overheating, rarly goes past the middle of the dial, and theirs no other signs of a gasket failure, no water loss, oil loss, smoke or white residue.

When I say heating up I mean as I drive with more agression but not past the normal limits. for example ticking over the engine maybe at (finger in the wind) 82 degrees and when worked hard 85 degrees.

Dan

johnsav · Post by **johnsav** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:16 pm

reloaded wrote:Not sure TBH,

Last service was and intermitant one at 62k, The book does have a full set of service stamps by Pug, not that that means much due to the poor quality of our dealers.

You suggestion does have merit, perhaps the oil could be getting thin at higher temps and not protecting all the components, also as the oil gets older it could get worse I guess, but why would the sound only come from the manifold area and noware else? surely the 1st victim of poor oil would be the tappets.

Dan

but you said yourself that the chap wasnt 100% sure it is the manifild. if it is tapping and its not "pinking" id say that the valve gear is being starved a bit. also bearing in mind the stupid angle peugeot like to put engines in at, id check your oil level just to be sure.

reloaded · Post by **reloaded** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 9:16 am

The guy was convinced the noise was coming from the manifold. It couldn't be heard anyware else around the engine bay, but his concern was that it may be coming from within the exhaust valves or even combustion chamber itself.

He was talking about replacing the manifold from pug (big bucks) and finding out that it wasn't the route of the problem.

He seemed to think that the arc of weld could of come from inside the manifold and that whatever was left behind could be causing the problem.

I always thought that an exhaust manifold was a simple device, plate of steel, 4 pipes routed into 1 and a connector! what could possible go wrong in their? MY 406 is one of those that has been made in 2 halves and forged together.

Thanks again
Dan

Post by **Welly** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 9:55 am

For what it's worth I had a 309 1.6 injection and that had a crack in the cast iron exhaust manifold which used to blow more after you raced the engine where the crack had been cleared out by the gas pressure.

The symptoms where a distinct 'ticking' sound as small bursts of exhaust gas escaped under pressure after each compression cycle.

Although hard to see you may be able to find black deposits if you have a small crack, the crack could be caused by stress on the manifold like the exhuast hanging down under the car, accident damage or thermal shock even.

I think that piece of welding 'slag' you found in the CAT was indeed from the manifold which has left you with a hairline crack allowing high pressure exhaust to escape and causing a ticking sound.

johnsav · Post by **johnsav** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 4:00 pm

Welton wrote:
I think that piece of welding 'slag' you found in the CAT

lol sure you mean slag?

Slag is a by-product of smelting ore to purify metals

Foghorn Leghorn · Post by **Foghorn Leghorn** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 7:01 pm

He certainly does, its why welders have a slag hammer. To bash the bits of slag off with

Fog

reloaded · Post by **reloaded** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 8:59 pm

Welton wrote:For what it's worth I had a 309 1.6 injection and that had a crack in the cast iron exhaust manifold which used to blow more after you raced the engine where the crack had been cleared out by the gas pressure.

The symptoms where a distinct 'ticking' sound as small bursts of exhaust gas escaped under pressure after each compression cycle.

Although hard to see you may be able to find black deposits if you have a small crack, the crack could be caused by stress on the manifold like the exhuast hanging down under the car, accident damage or thermal shock even.

I think that piece of welding 'slag' you found in the CAT was indeed from the manifold which has left you with a hairline crack allowing high pressure exhaust to escape and causing a ticking sound.

Thanks Welton and all,

The description from your 306 problem matches what my mechanic says, I have sourced a used manifold from a 2L saloon with low milage that I will get fitted for 120 pounds next week.

whilst I wait for this I think I will drop in some new 10w40 over the weekend and change the oil filter just to be on the safe side.

Thanks again
Dan

Post by **Welly** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 12:56 pm

reloaded wrote:
Welton wrote:For what it's worth I had a 309 1.6 injection and that had a crack in the cast iron exhaust manifold which used to blow more after you raced the engine where the crack had been cleared out by the gas pressure.

The symptoms where a distinct 'ticking' sound as small bursts of exhaust gas escaped under pressure after each compression cycle.

Although hard to see you may be able to find black deposits if you have a small crack, the crack could be caused by stress on the manifold like the exhuast hanging down under the car, accident damage or thermal shock even.

I think that piece of welding 'slag' you found in the CAT was indeed from the manifold which has left you with a hairline crack allowing high pressure exhaust to escape and causing a ticking sound.
Thanks Welton and all,

The description from your 306 problem matches what my mechanic says, I have sourced a used manifold from a 2L saloon with low milage that I will get fitted for 120 pounds next week.

whilst I wait for this I think I will drop in some new 10w40 over the weekend and change the oil filter just to be on the safe side.

Thanks again
Dan

Without sounding rude or Ghey, I would be interested to see a picture of your crack.

(in the manifold of course) .....Ewwwwww.

And I hope this other manifold does the trick, where did you get a used manifold from?