406oc.co.uk

Hi

Been having some problems lately getting the starter to work. It has happened once or twice earlier but charging the battery has fixed it. At first I thought it was the battery... got myself a cheap used one som time ago... tested shifting from my 2.0t which has a beter one but the problem remains. I dont know if the ignition can get verdigrised inside on the connection areas so the newly charged battery has fixed the problem temporary. Ive tried the old trick getting into gear and rocking it forwards and backwards to see if the starter would get to life. As for now I have to plan my trips with the car and park in downhill slopes and push start it...

When I turn the key all lights shine up as supposed to but the starter doesnt engage. I hear a faint click bit nothing like the distinct click from the solenoid Im used to on other pugs... sounds more like a relay (is it called that in english?) clicking. Are there anyone who can tell me if the wire from the ignition passes any fuses, connections or relays on the way to the starter? Snow on the ground here in sweden so i dont want to crawl around on the ground trying to get + to the solenoid under the car. First I just want to rule out the ignition, fuses and relays that might cause these symptoms.

Sorry if my english can be hard to understand.

/robert

Hi Robert

The starter motor failing is a fairly common fault when they get to a certain age; you can prove this by tapping the motor casing with a bar; this will usually get the car going.
I carried a breaker bar in the boot for about a year to persuade the starter motor until I got around to replacing it!

I guess its a possibility... but after ripping out a starter from a 205gti out, opening it and fixing it... putting it into the car and it still didnt work. went to the local bosch place to buy new cole (correct word?!)... he said he wanted to test it before I changed the coles and it worked like a charm. it was the cable in the positive led glove (?!) on the battery that had loosened inside the glove (some kind of english) making the solenoid click. there wasnt enough connection to turn the starter... it took some time to find the cause. a couple of strokes on the glove with the hammer fixed it and the car started. the glove vas replaced. what I want to say is that I want to make sure the fault isnt somewhere betwen the ignition and the starter before I get going ripping it out. just want to see if the starter gets + from the ignition the easiest way. is there somewhere easy (like a connection/contact) to measure and maybe put + direct on to test the starter the old fashion way?

Hi Robert, my son lives in Gavleborg in Sweden.

Are you sure the battery is in good enough condition?

I would get the battery fully charged and properly tested before looking at the starter motor.

The problem with the V6 engine is the starter motor is very bad to get at or I would give you a method of testing the wiring.

well... got the starter out. got some help from:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7693
but there should be some more info.

1. Start from above. REMOVE THE CABLES TO THE BATTERY! I forgot that once and almost sh*t myself changing starter on a 205gti!
2. remove heatshield from the forward exhaust manifold. 5 size 10 bolts. be careful... old bolts on exhaust parts tend to be rusty and/or fragile
3. Get under the car. remove protection plate below engine
4. Stand up in front of the car. first release the two lambda contacts... one green and one blue. just follow the cables. Get under the car. remove the exhaust clamp below the engine. I used a reciprocating saw (blame google translate if thats the wrong name for it in english) because they are usually totally rusted and nearly always break with a couple of bloody knuckles as a result so buying a new one before you begin is a good idea. Stand up in front of the car. loosen the three top bolts holding the exhaust manifold and downpipe together. I use an impact screw driver and a small sledge hammer to loosen them a little and then a long power shaft (directly translated from swedish... 50cm handle) with six point socket size 13 (i always use 6 point sockets when I work with exhaust bolts and nuts because the tend to have rusted away som and a 12 point usually totally destroying them). again be careful with rusty nuts. Get under the car. Drop the downpipe and remove it.
5. loosen the two size 10 bolts holding the little heatshield in front of the starter. can be a little fiddly to get out.
6. loosen the three size 16 bolts holding the starter in place.
7. now the fun part... try to loosen the size 13 nut holding the positive cable and the size 8 nut holding the thin cable to the solenoid. be careful turning it not to damage the thin cable or the cable lug to the solenoid. Then turn and gently lower the starter. It wasnt that difficult once the downpipe is off.

all in all not that big a deal (although it was quite cold outside). I was quite nervous since I once changed the wires to the gear linkage on my mothers worthless 605 v6... insane construction... thought the whole car was worthless. stupid solutions in several places. I know it share some things with 406, like the brakes, but I think 406 is a very good car. Ive got nr 2 and 3 now after selling our green metallic 194hp v6 with light leather when we got our second child. 210hp station wagon was the way to go and a 2.0 turbo for 8000 swedish kronor with broken spring (and that is the most stupid thing with this model... all my cars have had springs breaking falling down on the brake hose... idiotic construction making the spring narrower in the top and bottom. we´ll see if the HR springs are made of better quality. changing the top mount bearings reguarly is a must on these cars not to twist the spring apart).

The starter turns and work when I use jumper cables to test it. Gonna see if theres any current to the solenoid cable when my wife gets home from work. I will take it to our local bosch work shop to test it and buy new cole and clean the collector (correct word in english?) if its possible.

Jasper5:
I live in the south of sweden... I can see denmark if i drive to the coast 20 min away so your son would probably stay inside today with a varm cup of tea instead of crawling around in the snow and cold outside considering he lives in Gävleborg.

edit: made some things easier to understand if someone else gonna do this in the future

wife home. solenoid cable tested and it gives current. gonna open the starter and clean it. i think it may be the 13 size nut to positive current on the starter thats the cause. It felt as it was loose already. Ill be back with result tomorrow.

this car makes me mad. connected + directly to the solenoid after refitting the starter. starter turns and the engine started. assembled all. car doesnt start. jumper cables to my other car. car doesnt start. push started it. car starts. while driving I tried the starter... it worked (with a wonderful sound... ). parked it, turned it off... the starter suddenly works. No idea whats wrong but I will get a new battery and a new charger... the old one only puts out around 10v it seems. the battery is around 14v when turned off and 14,5v when running. Its an old measurment tool for checking the voltage that I dont think is 100% accurate but my multimeter just cant be found. well... I cant get any further right now.