406oc.co.uk

It's a V reg 110 HDi Executive Estate.
150k miles when I got it around 18 months back.
I did a new cam belt, tensioner, water pump etc and it's done another 11k miles without drama since.

On Saturday I towed a caravan for the first time. The caravan weighs 1350Kg, kinda medium sized.

36 miles into the trip and just crested a hill, the engine "STOP" light comes on and I see that the temp gauge is in the red.
Not much space to pull over on a fast dual carriageway, downhill sweeping left hander, trucks coming past fast a few feet away.
Lift the bonnet and it's belching like a Chinese laundry on full blast.

Can't stop there too long, so let it cool to 90c, top up the coolant, starts ok, bugger off outta the way.
Coupla miles and it's OK and I'm just daring to think that I might have got away with it, then heats up again suddenly.
Limp to a service station 1 mile up the road with steam and the STOP sign glaring at me.

1st thoughts - Head Gasket and a skim = beyond economical repair
Bugga, it's been a smashing old bus, really comfy, up to now reliable, regularly returns 50 + mpg.

Recovered the car to home base, get another and car, pick up the caravan and finish the weekend's activities.

This morning I have a look over some threads on the forum and start to think that I'll try some K-Seal 1st, then if that don't work maybe look at taking off the head myself and having a skim, maybe it might be saveable after all.
Anyway I topped the coolant up and started it to see where it's leaking. Sit there for 15 - 20 minutes and it finally gets to around 80c with no leaks.
Gingerly take it round the block, still OK. Long story short I get more and more adventurous, to the point where after 25 miles I'm thrashing the arse off it at 4k rpm in third for a few miles and it's still no more than 90c.
Back home and the expansion tank is empty, so it's got a leak, but dare I hope that the head is OK?

No emulsification of the oil.
No oil in the coolant that I can see.
No steam from the exhaust.
Starts as easy as before.
Runs fine, pulls like a steam (sorry) train.
Fuel consumption back to 50ish, it had been doing 27ish pulling the van.

So, what do you guys think? Have been lucky enough to boil it over twice and get away with it?

Should it be able to pull a caravan of that weight?
Is the 27mpg consumption about right for towing? seems very high to me in comparison to the usual 50mpg.

I'd much appreciate any thoughts and comments.
cheers
millard

Worth trying to flush the garbage out the rad?

steve_earwig wrote:Worth trying to flush the garbage out the rad?

Yeah I'd guess so Steve, although when I bled it the coolant coming out looked kinda clean.

My old 24v Carlton did something similar. On a holiday to Cornwall a sudden blast of steam and low coolant warning forced a stop - found a tiny hose onto the inlet manifold split, replaced it with a bit from the caravan's spare gas cylinder.

Seemed OK for the rest of the holiday, but started overheating early in the journey home. Limped it back with the heater on full blast, coasting half the time, stopping to let it cool etc. Drained & flushed it next day, changed the stat, bled it properly and it ran fine, even when thrashing it, for 6 months, then started to get steam out the exhaust.

When I stripped it down it had a lump rotted out of the ally head, around a water passage between 2 cylinders, which almost reached No.6 cyl.

Thanks for your responses guys.
Update.
Took it down to Camberley Auto factors and got a bottle of K-Seal. Poured it in, went home.
The coolant level had been left low on purpose yesterday so that the K-seal would pour directly into the rad from the tank and round the system.
After the 7 mile drive home the temp was still fine, but I noticed a small copper coloured leak around the expansion tank cap which was the K-seal.
I topped up the expansion tank and bled the system from the heater hose and the top of the radiator.
The tank was slowly filled up from below and I bled the rad again, air escaped and the tank level dropped.
This process repeated itself 10 or 12 times, so it looks to me like the cooling system is having air pumped into it and the only way I can think that can happen is from a blown head gasket.
Please tell me I'm wrong

what I do to bleed the system beyond removing air from bleeding nipples is, fill up the tank and start the engine with the cap removed. Water will start pour out along with air bubbles as temp rises close to 90. As fans kick in, the water level settles down. Repeat this process and add water if it drops lower than 1inch from the tank top.

Harshan wrote:what I do to bleed the system beyond removing air from bleeding nipples is, fill up the tank and start the engine with the cap removed. Water will start pour out along with air bubbles as temp rises close to 90. As fans kick in, the water level settles down. Repeat this process and add water if it drops lower than 1inch from the tank top.

Apart from getting down on my knees in front of the grill how do I tell when the fan kicks in?
Apart from the two times it boiled up the other day it never goes to 90c, usually hovers around 85-87ish, should it kick in then?
Just to clarify, it seems that however many times I bleed the system, air is getting in and expanding the coolant so that it flows over the tank neck.
thanks

I suspect the issue would be too much of air trapped in the system and fail to send the correct temperarture to the probe. That's why its boiling while it reads less than 90.

You can say the fans do kick in by the sound the fans emit or by sensing the wind flow it creates through the rad mesh. Keep the lid open and judge the amount of water spills continuously out before judging it to be the gasket.

Cheers

millard wrote:Thanks for your responses guys.
Update.
Took it down to Camberley Auto factors and got a bottle of K-Seal. Poured it in, went home.
The coolant level had been left low on purpose yesterday so that the K-seal would pour directly into the rad from the tank and round the system.
After the 7 mile drive home the temp was still fine, but I noticed a small copper coloured leak around the expansion tank cap which was the K-seal.
I topped up the expansion tank and bled the system from the heater hose and the top of the radiator.
The tank was slowly filled up from below and I bled the rad again, air escaped and the tank level dropped.
This process repeated itself 10 or 12 times, so it looks to me like the cooling system is having air pumped into it and the only way I can think that can happen is from a blown head gasket.
Please tell me I'm wrong

it couid be the expansion cap is fubard,

K-seal can take a while to work its way in, ive found it can take a run of up to 50 -60 miles before it makes an effect,

I would have tried a new thermostat first if there isn't an obvious leak, one with a lower temperature rating than the one in the car....it will help the car run cooler, eg, if you have an 88 or 90 degree stat fitted change it for an 82 degree one.

To eliminate the head gasket take it to a garage for a chemical "sniffer" test.

gonna go for a sniff test today, will let you know.
thanks for your replies guys

I know this is off topic but how did the car tow the caravan before it had a fit,the reason i ask is that i'm using my 110 estate at the end of July to tow our caravan (1350kgs) 250 miles to Cornwall,i've put a pair of Grayston spring assisters on the rear and it goes in for a remap on friday.I usually tow with the bmw which has no problems at all but it's not going to be practical on this hol so roping the 110 in for the job and not sure how it's going to tackle the job.

grasmere59 wrote:I know this is off topic but how did the car tow the caravan before it had a fit,the reason i ask is that i'm using my 110 estate at the end of July to tow our caravan (1350kgs) 250 miles to Cornwall,i've put a pair of Grayston spring assisters on the rear and it goes in for a remap on friday.I usually tow with the bmw which has no problems at all but it's not going to be practical on this hol so roping the 110 in for the job and not sure how it's going to tackle the job.

I found it OK, but have to admit that I've never towed a caravan before so have nothing to compare the experience with.
It could have used a wee bit more power I'd say on hills but a wee bit of anticipation of the correct gear helps.
Try this site
http://www.towcar.info/report.php

I'm not sure if I've got the right car, as I'm assuming that what they refer to as a "break" model is the estate, and I could be way off the mark.
Worth scrolling all the way down to get owner's feedback of the experience.

good luck

millard

looks like the link ain't opening up correctly on here, so I've copied and pasted below, hope it makes sense.









Towing Report




Peugeot and Hobby

The towing capability for the Peugeot 406 Break - 2.0 HDI
with a Hobby Excellent 495 UFe:

Performance on leveled roads
Top speed
Acceleration and take over
Towing ability Performance in mountainous regions
Drive off uphill
Driving on motorway slopes
Driving on steep roads




92%

1400 kg 1514 kg






Peugeot 406 Break - 2.0 HDI (80 kW/107 bhp)
Date of manufacture: october 1998 - september 2004. Towball limit: 80 kg (Advise: 80 kg)

Important for safe towing is the weight ratio between Car and Caravan. The weight ratio (loaded caravan / kerbweight tow car) for the Peugeot and Hobby is 92%. This means that the caravan is rather heavy for this car. The stability and safety index is satisfactory for this outfit.

The towing performances of this Peugeot with your Hobby are good (performance index = 57).
You may expect more than adequate performances from this outfit. On flat roads you can come along provided you've selected the right gear, top gear is applicable under normal circumstances.

On motorway inclines you will be able to come along quite nicely. On steep roads you have more than sufficient power to keep going. On hill starts there will be sufficient power to get going, provided the wheels have traction.




More in detail

Possible top speeds



Possible top speed in windless conditions and head wind force 3
Top speed in 3rd gear is 68 mph and in head wind it will be 67 mph.
Top speed in 4th gear is 73 mph and in head wind it will be 65 mph.
Top speed in 5th gear is 66 mph and in head wind it will be 56 mph.


Top speed or speed at 3200 rpm (= 80% of max. power revolution)
Speed in 1st gear is 17 mph and in head wind (force 3) it will be 17 mph.
Speed in 2nd gear is 32 mph and in head wind (force 3) it will be 32 mph.
Speed in 3rd gear is 50 mph and in head wind (force 3) it will be 50 mph.
Speed in 4th gear is 71 mph and in head wind (force 3) it will be 65 mph.
Speed in 5th gear is 66 mph and in head wind (force 3) it will be 56 mph.


Acceleration and take over



Acceleration
0 - 50 mph with caravan in 16.6 sec. (solo: 8.7 sec.)
0 - 62 mph with caravan in 28.7 sec. (solo: 12.5 sec.)
0 - 75 mph with caravan in sec. (solo: 18.5 sec.)


Acceleration 44 - 56 mph flexibility
As fast as possible (through the gears) 8.7 sec.
In 3rd gear 8.7 sec. Tractive power (pick-up) is fairly good.
In 4th gear 13.9 sec. Tractive power (pick-up) is moderate.
In 5th gear 29.8 sec. Tractive power (pick-up) is bad.


Usability 5th gear at 50 mph



Power at 50 mph in 5th gear (1713 rpm) 54 kW
Power needed to drive 50 mph 37 kW
Acceleration 50-56 mph in 5th gear 15.7 sec
Maximum head wind in 5th gear at 50 mph head wind force 4 (23 km/h)
Maximum gradient in the 5th gear at 50 mph 1%


Minimum speed - at maximal torque - at 3200 rev - at max rev
in the 1st gear 9 mph - 9 mph - 17 mph - 23 mph
in the 2nd gear 17 mph - 17 mph - 32 mph - 44 mph
in the 3th gear 27 mph - 27 mph - 50 mph - 69 mph
in the 4th gear 38 mph - 39 mph - 71 mph - 98 mph
in the 5th gear 49 mph - 51 mph - 93 mph - 127 mph


Driving on motorway slopes



Top speed on a gradient of 5% (1 to 20)
In the 1st gear: 22 mph at 4335 rpm and 17 mph at 3200 rpm
In the 2nd gear: 43 mph at 4334 rpm and 32 mph at 3200 rpm
In the 3th gear: 55 mph at 3514 rpm and 50 mph at 3200 rpm
The 4th gear isn't applicable at a gradient of 5% (1 to 20).
The 5th gear isn't applicable at a gradient of 5% (1 to 20).


Drive off uphill



Elevation Drive off uphill in the first gear
0 m. 16.4%
500 m. 16.1%
1000 m. 15.7%
1500 m. 15.4%
2000 m. 15.1%
2500 m. 14.7%


Driving on steep roads



Top speed on a gradient of 12% (1 to
1st gear 22 mph
2nd gear 35 mph
3rd gear isn't applicable
4th gear isn't applicable
5th gear isn't applicable


Elevation Drive at 12 mph
in 1st gear Drive at 25 mph
in 2nd gear
0 m 33.7% 16.1%
500 m 33.2% 15.9%
1000 m 32.7% 15.6%
1500 m 32.1% 15.4%
2000 m 31.6% 15.1%
2500 m 31.1% 14.9%


Check data

Car make and model Peugeot 406 Break - 2.0 HDI
Year of issue october 1998 - september 2004
Power 107 bhp (80 kW) at 4000 rpm
Torque 184 lb/ft (250 Nm) at (or from) 1750 rpm
Kerbweight (may differ in the UK) 1514 kg and 'ballasted' with 150 kg
Tyres 205 / 55 R 16
Transmission Manual (or automatic without torque converter)
5 speed
Caravan Hobby Excellent 495 UFe
Actual laden caravan weight 1400 kg (car towing limit is 1500 kg)
The airflow is: average (height = 2.54 m and width = 2.30 m)
Gross Train weight (car+caravan) 3064 kg


User Reviews

The Peugeot towing a Compass Rallye 540 (1312) kg reviewed by John:
= 74% = 90 km/u = 15%
The Peugeot makes a great towcar in 20 years of towing it is the best towcar I have owned. It has no problem towing my compass even on steep hills. Would reccomend to anyone.

The Peugeot towing a Bailey Ranger 550/6 (1258) kg reviewed by Paul:
= 71% = 92 km/u = 16%
Fantastic tow car. went to this car from a 4x4. No problem pulling a fairly large caravan.

The Peugeot towing a Bailey Ranger 470/4 (1167) kg reviewed by ALF:
= 65% = 92 km/u = 16%
I had a landrover disco but this car has out performed it in every way have hand it for 8 years with no trouble in reliabilty good on fuel smooth and quiet ride great tow car

The Peugeot towing a Bailey Ranger 550/6 (1208) kg reviewed by Ash:
= 74% = 93 km/u = 17%
First time towing, found the peugeot 406 towed the Bailey Ranger 550/6 nice and smoothly, great economy with 40mpg usually get 50mpg unladen. 5th gear not great though, used 4th gear for less engine stress at rev range.

The Peugeot towing a Abbey Aventura 318 (1404) kg reviewed by dave:
= 80% = 90 km/u = 15%
this is best tow car have been all over europe..car is a--110 bhp

The Peugeot towing a Sterling Europa 490 (1383) kg reviewed by D Warren:
= 78% = 91 km/u = 15%
this is a new match for me .but so far very pleased with the performance, am finding it an excellant tow car.Although it is only the 90 bhp model,it is still quite lively & economical

The Peugeot towing a Elddis Avante Club 362 (1129) kg reviewed by Brian:
= 61% = 95 km/u = 17%
Mine is an eight year old 110 saloon & the only reason I would trade it is for ANOTHER one. I am unable to fault its comfort, ride or towing ability. On the level at 60mph at under 2000 revs, 40mpg is easily obtained. The saloon is still an attractive car but maybe the estate is more practical for us 'caravanner's' !!

The Peugeot towing a Lunar Chateau 470 (1280) kg reviewed by Les:
= 72% = 91 km/u = 16%
Mine is an 02 406 auto 110 bhp saloon,towing Lunar lx 2000 525 (1300kg).No probs whatsoever, great on motorways especially with cruise control on.Average towing mpg is 30.Will poodle along all day......

The Peugeot towing a Lunar Lexon 640 (1475) kg reviewed by bobby:
= 84% = 89 km/u = 14%
i own peugeot 20-110bhp year 2000 caravan lunar lexon 640,97per-cent match tows no proplem average 30plus plulls up hill better than the three jeeps i have owned good on motor ways great on hills a1 car for towing you do need to up the rear suspension,happy towing

The Peugeot towing a Bailey Olympus 504 (1424) kg reviewed by Nigel Hewer:
= 86% = 91 km/u = 15%
I own Peugeot 406 2.0HDI Estate and a Bailey Olympus 504. Although the ratio is 94% the car copes very well with caravan. Have taken the caravan to weighbridge and has weighed in at 1380kg which is lighter than the Manufacturers 1424KG.This is my 2nd 406 and is much better than the previous petrol estate.

The Peugeot towing a Burstner Ventana 430 (1200) kg reviewed by Ian Bosman:
= 72% = 90 km/u = 17%
So far, having towed the van from where I picked it up to home, a distance of 130 miles, it towed perfectly. The car has been used with a lighter van for several years and is by far the best tug we have had from several Pugs, diesel and petrol. The ability to tow in 5th at 60mph is a great advantage as we have managed up to 34 mpg, 50mpg solo.

I found it OK, but have to admit that I've never towed a caravan before so have nothing to compare the experience with.
It could have used a wee bit more power I'd say on hills but a wee bit of anticipation of the correct gear helps.
Try this site
http://www.towcar.info/report.php

I'm not sure if I've got the right car, as I'm assuming that what they refer to as a "break" model is the estate, and I could be way off the mark.
Worth scrolling all the way down to get owner's feedback of the experience.

good luck

millard[/quote]


I've towed the caravan many times before but only with the bmw and to be honest with over 200 bhp and rear wheel drive it's never been a problem but i've only ever towed the caravan to and from the service centre which is only a few miles so i've never had to tackle hills etc with it,the 2.2hdi estate was towcar of the year in 2001.I was concerned about stability (swaying etc).The 110 will have a roofbox on and loaded with kit so will be heavier than the handbook says so hopefully more stable and the remap should take it to approx 140 bhp which should help.