Alternator/power steering belt

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clarkey1984
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Alternator/power steering belt

Post by clarkey1984 »

My 2.1td decided to shred and subsequently throw it's belt today, I'd heard a clicky noise for a while so I'm guessing it had started to disintegrate a while back and finally gave up today, thankfully the day after a week back and forth to hospital and the arrival of my son :)

Anyway, the part number luckily was still readable, gates 6PK1740, which I'll order at the local place tomorrow, but im just wondering how hard they are to change, as I've heard stories of having to remove engine mounts and all sorts, plus having tensioners and things like a timing belt would on some cars, something I've never dealt with, on the old basic stuff I'm used to working on all you need is a screwdriver to lever with and a 13mm spanner :)

What I'm basically asking is am I going to have a mare of a job on my hands with this?

Thanks in advance :)
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Rolebama
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Re: Alternator/power steering belt

Post by Rolebama »

Remove drivers side front wheel and inner arch liner. All you need is a 6mm Allen key. Make sure you wind the tensioner all the way in. Took me about half an hour, but I do not have air con, although I can't see this makes a lot of difference.
1998 2.1 GLX TD
clarkey1984
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Re: Alternator/power steering belt

Post by clarkey1984 »

Mine doesn't have an Allen key in the tensioner, apart from the larger (I'd say about 10mm) one that holds it to the car, mine has a square slot, which is allegedly the right size to take a 3/8 ratchet handle, which is isn't, it's somewhere in between a 1/4 drive and a 3/8 drive size, plus despite the new belt being the exact same size as the one that came off, no matter what configuration I put the belt in, it's about a foot too long! :(

EDIT: it's not too long, there's just 3 different ways you can thread it up, I chose the wrong way, although now i have it right the belt is very very slightly too short, because they've sent me a 1735mm belt and not a 1740mm one, the shop are fuming, as they ordered the right one but the supplier seems to have supplied the nearest one they had as they didn't have the exact one, let's try again with a new belt in the morning., I've also sorted the tensioner thing by grinding a 10mm Allen key down so it was square, the square hole in the tensioner is about 8mm, not 3/8 or 1/4 as I have seen written on the web after googling.
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Rolebama
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Re: Alternator/power steering belt

Post by Rolebama »

Apologise for duff info. I have not got air con. I assume you have, as Haynes book of lies refers to sqsuare headed tensioner on air con type.
1998 2.1 GLX TD
clarkey1984
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Re: Alternator/power steering belt

Post by clarkey1984 »

No your fine, you were spot on, apart from the air con, but if you've not got it then how would you be expected to know lol, and the Haynes is right in a way as there is a square drive hole, but according to Google it's a 3/8 drive hole, which is wrong.

I'm now about to cycle 2 miles to get the belt swapped over, I'm hugely unfit and may die :lol:
gumby6371
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Re: Alternator/power steering belt

Post by gumby6371 »

On my first D8 I always had problems identifying the correct belt as there were 2 manufacturers of air con pump and 3 different models in total, each needing slightly different length belts.
Make a note of which you have so next time you can spend a day searching for the bit of paper, give up and order the one you think it is only to discover you have a really bad memory. :oops:
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clarkey1984
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Re: Alternator/power steering belt

Post by clarkey1984 »

Well, after getting the correct belt, (i was able to read the number off the old one so i know its correct) it still will NOT fit in the configuration that its supposed to.

The belt is supposed to fit like this...

Image

but as you can see by the green line ive added above to show where i can get the belt to, even with the tensioner fully undone that is as far as it will physically go, it just wont go on.


The only way i can get it on is like this, but then it drops off after about 2 seconds anyway, im guessing because the tension is then being applied at the wrong angle, forcing it off the idler, i think its called an idler anyway, the small pulley above the tensioner.

Image

then i tried a third way, which would go on, if the belt didnt foul itself where it passes the tensioner...


Image


and then theres the other 4th way, which id say is the most logical way, but id need a much shorter belt...

Image



Ive also noticed that this pulley that im calling an idler is sat on a bit of an angle, and also sits very low, as when ive got the belt on as in the first picture the belt is nearly making contact with itself where it goes round the tensioner, theres barely half an inch gap between the 2 pulleys.


what i think has happened is that this idler has worn and gone on an angle, which not only makes the belt drop off, but is also the reason why the right belt in the right configuration wont go on, because if it were sat higher and straight, like in the diagram, then id have more slack to play with.
clarkey1984
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Re: Alternator/power steering belt

Post by clarkey1984 »

Right right right, it appears that im a massive tw@t, and the thing im calling an idler is in fact the tensioner, as the 3/8 drive hole is present as googling suggested, but, this doesnt really help all that much because someone has done this before and used brute force, so the hole in the tensioner has been wrenched out and the ratchet just slips round in the hole.
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Welly
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Re: Alternator/power steering belt

Post by Welly »

Holy sh*t you've gone to a lot of trouble there but it sounds like the tensioner is butchered? I hope you can sort something maybe even by force? jasper on here might be able to advise.
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madmadmax
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Re: Alternator/power steering belt

Post by madmadmax »

it sound like some one has butcher that tensioner so i would ad vise checking for play in all the pulleys and checking alinement with string as you mentioned it throwing the belt off in seconds
clarkey1984
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Re: Alternator/power steering belt

Post by clarkey1984 »

Well, aside from the battery now being dead, its sort of done, temporarily anyway.

Its a heck of a bodge but it works for now.

What i did, after removing the top bolt that holds the tension spring, then fighting for over an hour with the bolt that holds the bottom of the spring to the tensioner which you have to access through a hole in the alternator bracket, and after removing the wheel of the tensioner, i realised that i couldnt get the whole assembly off the car no matter how much i tried because the 19mm bolt that holds the tensioner to the car is too long to come fully out of whatever it screws into, not enough clearence, i even had the engine mounting off and the lump jacked up, not happening whatsoever, so i refitted a longer bolt with a big washer on so it now goes through that alternator bracket and spring straight into the tensioner, no access issues anymore, but no hope in hell of getting the top of the tensioner spring bolted back on, 1 because it nowhere near lines up, and 2 because i lost the special bolt, but this is a blessing in disguise, because the hole behind the bracket that the bolt screws into isnt perfectly lined up with the hole, as its meant to have the allen headed one that sinks below that hole, so as i did it up it pulled the whole assembly at a slight angle, which has then pulled the tensioner over so its not wonky anymore :D

So i refitted the tensioner wheel and 19mm bolt, got the belt on, and its about the right length, a little loose, but on. Then i got a bar and applied pressure to the tensioner by levering against the bottom pulley, then i realised that i couldnt nip tight the 19mm top bolt at the same time, so used my trolley jack to slowly apply pressure until it was as far as it could go, then went via the top where theres just enough room to get an open ended 19mm spanner on the top bolt, and tightened it up, thats the tension now a lot better, no spring connected, but the 19 holds it perfectly well, i released the jack and all good.

Then the final task was using the small pulley under the tensioner to get a bit more oomph on the belt, as it has that smaller square offset hole in that i ground an allen key down to fit into yesterday, pulling that clockwise so the square drive part is now in the down position got it lovely and tight, so all i had to do then was keep hold of my adapted allen key and nip up the bolt holding the pulley on, job done :D


No spring connected, but the way ive done it it doesnt need it, its perfectly tight. There is some slap in the belt on idle but just raise the revs slightly and it goes away.

Bodge bodged, on a temporary basis anyway. :)
clarkey1984
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Re: Alternator/power steering belt

Post by clarkey1984 »

Well one week later and it's still going strong, I lost 1/6 of the belt on the 2nd day of driving it when I pulled away on full lock and the engine bogged a little bit but the other 5 grooves are still there so all is well :)
jasper5
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Re: Alternator/power steering belt

Post by jasper5 »

The pulley with the square hole and 10mm allen bolt in it....did you actually undo the 10mm allen bolt before you tried to fit the belt?

The reason for the square hole is the same as a timing belt tensioner, eg, you can turn the pulley using the square hole when the 10mm allen key is undone to adjust the initial tension....final tension being done by the actual tensioner.
clarkey1984
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Re: Alternator/power steering belt

Post by clarkey1984 »

That's exactly what I did, but some smart arse has wrenched the square drive hole out of the tensioner making it impossible to tension it correctly, you can't get anywhere near enough pressure on it with the spring connected without the ratchet slipping, I tried to remove the whole tensioner mechanism but it appears to be impossible with the engine in because the bolt holding it to the engine fouls the chassis, awful design.
jasper5
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Re: Alternator/power steering belt

Post by jasper5 »

I'm missing something here....your tensioning method isn't what I remember when fitting a new belt with that setup.

Tensioners can be removed with the engine in.
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