2001 2.2HDi saloon - repair or scrap?...

[min]

Hi,

First of all I'm not sure if I'm opening the thread in the right section, so I'm asking an admin to move it if it's needed.
So this weekend my wife had a bad accident with our beloved 406 sedan 2001 2.2HDi (pre-mux electrics). Short damage list: airbags and dashboard cover, all three radiators, power steering lines, gearbox moved backwards for 3-4 inch (no gear selection possible due to messed-up gear change cables/sticks etc), lots of sensors and other staff smashed: MAF, accelerating sensor, oil level sensor, 2 vacuum valves, battery housing, ECU housing, all sort of hoses broken, air filter housing and linecbroken, both front wings, engine hood, front bumper plus under bumper reinforcement, front grille and metal upper and lower traverse, one foglight and one main light, parts of engine electrical wires and the list goes on. Though the chassis legs seem well, so is the subframe.
The car's value here in Romania before the accident was around 2000Euros, if I scrap it probably I get less than 500Euros since second hand market is already 'crowded'... Taking these into account, investing 1200-1500Euros for reparing it (mainly second hand parts) definetly sound crazy, The problem is that recent local regulation almost bans registering Euro3 Diesel cars (very high taxes - approx 1400Euros for a 2.2HDi 406), so buying a functional car and keeping mine for parts also is not an option (cars already registered like mine are not affected by this new law refering to new resitrations or re-registration (due to owner change) taxes). So no matter how you look at it everybody says I should check for another car; currently old ('99-'04) gasoline cars have very low (100-200Euros) registration taxes. I had a look to '99-'04 Focus MK1 1.8 or 2.0 gasoline engines (high capacity in order to diminish the downgrade feeling (from 2.2 406 HDi sedan to 1.8-2.0 gasoline '99-'04 Focus) in terms of power although torque difference will be huge (( ).
Still my first option is to try to repair my current 406 2.2HDi - I love the confort offered at high speeds (quite silent up to 160-170km/h with reasonable consumption) and very stable due to low grounding cleareance plus good handling offered by rear independent suspension... Now some questions for forum colleagues:

1) engine electrical wiring can be easily swaped from one car to another identical one (I suppose the whole car electrics enters the car only to the BSI)?
2) Since I can much easier (adm cheaper) find 'fully-muxed' electrics (post 2002) 406 2.2HDi here in Romania, I'm wondering if the whole wiring needs changing plus ECU&BSI? Or the whole list of engine and car sensors also? Some details here pls?

Thanks a lot.

[min]

Since I'm addicted to the 406 model, during the recent vacation in Austria I had a quick run to France and bought a car identical to mine: same color, same engine, same year (mine has DAM code 8830, 'frenchie' has 8850), higher mileage (mine
120.000 miles, 'frenchie' is 150.000 miles old), Ouragan rims not in excelent state. Below some pics with 'frenchie':

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Also some pics with my car:

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Now I have the option to register the 'frenchie' here in Romania or to repair my old car using all the needed parts from the 'frenchie'. Since the registration taxes are very high due to the cars' age and pollution standard of the 406 2.2HDi, the saving in case of reparing is estimated to 700-900Euros... Although it's quite a lot of money I could save, still I'm concerned about the final result due to the complexity of the reparation: left chassis leg need to be straightened (gear box moved back ~3 inches), engine electrics to be changed (several connectors or cables smashed), all radiators changed, power steering hoses/pipes changed, all front (radiator grille, engine hood, front wings), windshield, dashbord (with airbags) etc etc...

Is it worh the 7-900Euros difference between a functional car and a repaired one (with above issues)?! My concern is related to the final result after reparation - if it will or not almost perfect like before the accident... Or I should go further with the registration, pay the money and just keep mine for spare parts...

[jonsowman]

Good lord, what a mess. I hope your wife & anyone else involved was OK.

In that state, I'd be inclined to let it go. It could turn into a truly mammoth task to get that roadworthy again. Keep the new (French) one. Don't worry about the mileage, these cars go on forever

By the way, sorry you got no replies to this the first time around. I assume it was because it was the day after Boxing Day and everyone was asleep/hung over.

[steve_earwig]

I'm not altogether sure what you mean there, I think you're saying that it would cost you 700-900€ to register the French car in Romania, or you could use it to repair your car which would cost you nothing (just time/labour) and then you could sell the rest of the French car for parts. Or do you have a fairly good idea how much it would cost to straighten your car and the 700-900€ is in addition to this figure?

Your car looks terrible (I hope your wife was ok), I'm not even sure you could bring that back as good as it was with the chassis bent. It might look ok but I suspect alignment would be a problem.

Do you know anyone that's really good at welding? I mean, good enough to cut out the chassis number from your car and seamlessly weld it into the French car?

[min]

The wife is fine. It's really strange - I suppose they do not call the front-right seat as the 'deadman seat' for nothing. My wife was driving and I think it was one of the very few times when she wasn't wearing the seat belt; I was on the front-right seat with seat-belt on but I have much more bruises and scratches than her... Anyway, we are pleased since we are ok and it could have been much worse...

In terms of investments: reparing mine costs 600 to 1000, depending on the work on the left chassis bent (needs straightening with a laser machine etc - the wheel aligment, shock aborbers is ok). Registering an import second hand car in Romania costs very much, depending on age and pollution norm - for the 'frenchie' it's estimated at 1400Euros...
The 'frenchie' will need some additional DYI already performed at my car (de-fap, eliminate variable inlet flaps etc etc). Also on the French engine I noticed in Lexia some worse state injectors than mine, the turbo seems to leak (at the intercooler) more oil than mine and also there is a ticking sound from the vacuum pump area - but anyway in the worst case I could easily swap the engines.

Swapping chassis numbers between cars I eliminated from the beginning (it's in the engine compartment, at the basis of the windshield and inside the car on the passenger side floor ). Although it's by far the easiest and fastest and cheapest solution, they make here (rarely, it's true) spontaneous checks on the street for smoke/brakes/steering issues mainly for old cars. I don't know if they also use during these raids the X-ray or laser devices used usually during validating car's identity at car selling procedure but you never know and freedom is much more pretious ))

So on Saturday I had already scheduled a visit from a mechanic specialized in crashed cars revival to give me an honest estimation for effort/expenses related to reparation but, most probably, no matter his answer I'll follow the general opinion to register the French car...

[Welly]

In the UK that damage would be classed as a Category B write off i.e. damage to the structure/chassis and not suitable to be reborn as it were.

I understand your predicament as you really like the car but see what the repair/mechanic guy says and go from there I guess.

Main question being: would you really be happy with the finished job if you did manage to get the thing straight-ish again?

Perhaps there's money to be had in breaking the silver 2.2?

[min]

My concern is not related to how my car will look after reparation - I saw cars in worse state than mine repaired by this guy and wings/hood/bumper were perfectly aligned etc, so the car looked ok. The concern is referring to possible engine vibrations sent to chassis due to not perfect engine sitting (I saw a Passat with similar damage which generated noise at idle and low rpms due to chassis vibrations after reparation etc). Also I am concerned about rattling/noise etc after whole dash replacement for airbags (possible screws or idolation which might not be mounted again as OEM etc). I'll see what he says also...

In any case the other car I would keep for spare parts (the local demand for this model parts is low)...

[rwb]

Good grief. Glad to hear you're both OK.

Like Welly says, over here that's clearly dead. I agree that when fixed it may never be right.

How exactly does this tax work? There must be something better than a ford fuckarse?

[Doggy]

Good to hear you are both OK after that incident.

Repairing your original car would not be my choice, it is very unlikely there would not be something wrong with the repaired vehicle.

If you repair your old car, would you then sell the 'frenchie' without registering it your country? Is there no possibility of claiming the 406 is Euro 4 compliant as it has a DPF?

Forgive my curiosity, but I see you had removed the air dosers and bypass heat exchanger from your car. I have not come across a semi-mux 2.2 with these modifications before - did you have a custom ecu map?

[min]

About the tax: before Romania entered the EU (2007) there were some customs tax for import which affected also cars (both old and new). Immediately after entering EU, the import taxes had to be removed but they 'invented' a pollution tax for second hand cars import in order to protect the local new cars producers (Dacia-Renault and Ford). After some time several guys sew the state for this tax, they won some trials and finally they changed the tax name and also applied it for new cars. It is actually paid for any car (both old and new) at the first registration in Romania; for new cars it's tens to max 2-300Euros (for very big engines) and zero for hybrids. For second hand cars it depends on pollution norm (non-Euro to Euro 5), on Diesel versus gasoline (after last tax changes DPF is no more taken into consideration, so it doesn't help for the 406), on grams/km CO2 (according to official factory catalogues), on car's age, if it's passenger car or cargo etc. Estimated tax for the 'frenchie' is around 1100 Euros plus other registration expenses (papers translation, registration fees, car ID paper release, plates, first technical inspection). Also the car will have no 'accident history' in Romania and the mandatory insurance will increase compared to the old car by 150 Euros/year

The Ford Focus I had evaluated since in first week of January I had planned (since several months before) a ski vacation in Austria; from Austria I was close to Germany which was full of cheap and good state gasoline Focuses (which have a low 'first registration tax'). It was a compromise since I liked the rear independent suspension (compared to other cars in its class it had good handling/stability) and the 2.0 gasoline engine offered some attractive performance. Although the consumption is much higher than the 2.2 HDI, it has lower yearly tax/fees/insurance than 2.2 HDI so overall the yearly expenses with the Focus would be just a little more than the 2.2HDI.

I eliminated from the list other Diesel model since among the available Diesel cars I was 'set' on the 2.2HDi because it's the cheapest to buy, I like the car confort/handling/behaviour compared to similar year Passat/Mondeo etc and I already had some mechanical experience with it ) So on the day when I arrived in Austria and I was planning to start and see the first Focus on my list I was lucky to see that a new 406 saloon 2.2 HDI had just appeared on the available car site from Germany (mobile.de). The car was located at a dealer in Belgium and after a 6 hours drive it was mine (I lost 2 days of skiing from my vacation but it was worth it)


From the beginning when I bought the 'frenchie' I had in mind either to use parts from it to repair mine or to try and register it. Selling the 'remains' from either the 'frenchie' or my car is not worth it. Some local 'dealers' bring (mainly from UK ) 406s for dismantling and selling parts but 99% are 2.0 HDIs (2.2 HDI is not very popular in Romania due to higher taxes/insurance). So I wouldn't gain big thing from selling some remaining parts like doors, suspension etc; on the other hand I prefered to have a complete car since I could not find locally a reliable 2.2 HDI engine electrics (if I want to repair my car most probably I need the whole engine electrics swapped). Also there are several expensive sensors (TPS, MAF etc) which are 2.2HDI specific - I could not find on scrap market and the price for new parts is huge... So in both cases (I register the 'frenchie' or I repair mine) I'll keep the other car for spare parts...

Yes, on my car I use 'Nicowico inlet pipes' but only for air-dosers - the EGR was still in place (so no changes in the maps regarding EGR). The only change in the map was referring to removing the FAP with the ECUsafe software. I was planning soon an upgraded map also with EGR off but it will have to wait...

[Welly]

About the tax: before Romania entered the EU (2007) there were some customs tax for import which affected also cars (both old and new). Immediately after entering EU, the import taxes had to be removed but they 'invented' a pollution tax for second hand cars import in order to protect the local new cars producers (Dacia-Renault and Ford). After some time several guys sew the state for this tax, they won some trials and finally they changed the tax name and also applied it for new cars. It is actually paid for any car (both old and new) at the first registration in Romania; for new cars it's tens to max 2-300Euros (for very big engines) and zero for hybrids. For second hand cars it depends on pollution norm (non-Euro to Euro 5), on Diesel versus gasoline (after last tax changes DPF is no more taken into consideration, so it doesn't help for the 406), on grams/km CO2 (according to official factory catalogues), on car's age, if it's passenger car or cargo etc. Estimated tax for the 'frenchie' is around 1100 Euros plus other registration expenses (papers translation, registration fees, car ID paper release, plates, first technical inspection). Also the car will have no 'accident history' in Romania and the mandatory insurance will increase compared to the old car by 150 Euros/year

Jesus in summary then, and just like the UK, "buy a brand-new Hybrid and we'll love you forever"

papers translation, registration fees, car ID paper release, plates, first technical inspection

Reminds me of the tales told by member steve_earwig who lives in Croatia with similar sounding ridiculous paperwork and red tape.

Good luck with the car thing min, it's a real shame about the crash but as said as long as you're both in good health that's the main thing.

Keep us posted about how things unfold in the near future. By the way I don't know if English is you're first language but your spelling and grammar is excellent

[min]

As mentioned, on Saturday a mechanic will see the car (visit already scheduled since last week); even if he makes me 'an offer I can't refuse' , most probably I'll turn down the offer since he cannot guarantee the final result. As I said, I saw cars much more damaged repaired by him but he makes them for further selling (for profit). I'm also a little 'fast driver' type so I want to be sure I can rely on the car I'm driving, especially that I'm planning an updated map as soon as I recover financially after all this story...

Regarding my English - I learnt it for my hobbies (cars and motorcycles ) but also for my job - no thing like first language

I'll be back with an update after the weekend when I go again to my mother in law where the car is located (70 miles away from my city). I'll have there the discussion with the mechanic and also a have closer look at the car (if it's not snowing again).

[Ares]

Mate,i live in Croatia,where life standards are a bit lower than UK but even here peugeots 406 are cheap.
I would advise you to buy other car.
I also saw a few cars with damage like this fixed but it was newer the same again,there was always something.

Previous owner of my 406 Coupe had close encounter with the lorry which destroyed front bumper,right wing,bonnet and drivers mirror.
Insurance payed him in total of 2 thousand euros which is enough to buy another 406 Coupe.
I didnt had the time to read all of your posts,i must hurry to job but if you get good money with insurance,buy another one cuz this one
is in really bad shape.
As i can see,entire front end is deformed.

Anyway,best of luck with frenchy and good to hear both of you are ok.

[steve_earwig]

Mate,i live in Croatia,where life standards are a bit lower than UK but even here peugeots 406 are cheap.

They're still many times the price the are in UK (my 406 is probably worth 3-3,5k€)

[min]

Mate,i live in Croatia,where life standards are a bit lower than UK but even here peugeots 406 are cheap.
I would advise you to buy other car.
I also saw a few cars with damage like this fixed but it was newer the same again,there was always something.

Previous owner of my 406 Coupe had close encounter with the lorry which destroyed front bumper,right wing,bonnet and drivers mirror.
Insurance payed him in total of 2 thousand euros which is enough to buy another 406 Coupe.
I didnt had the time to read all of your posts,i must hurry to job but if you get good money with insurance,buy another one cuz this one
is in really bad shape.
As i can see,entire front end is deformed.

Anyway,best of luck with frenchy and good to hear both of you are ok.

Some clarifications regarding the insurance in Romania: the mandatory insurance will help you pay the damage you cause when you hit (from your fault) another car. There is also the optional insurance which pays you (entirely or partially) the damage you create to your own car (from your fault). In my case I would have needed the second type of insurance (accident caused from my/my wife's fault) but we didn't have such an insurance. Actually even if we wanted one they wouldn't make since the cars is older than 10 years (local insurance companies policies)

Regarding 406 (Diesel) price in Romania - it's between 2000 and 3000Euros but most of them are 2.0HDI; 2.2HDI is not successful here since yearly tax for less than 2000cc engines is about 45Euros and for 2.2HDI is 170Euros. For a 3000cc engine the yearly tax is 530Euros...