Remap or Tuning Box

pugmania · Post by **pugmania** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 12:19 pm

Which way to go chaps (and chapesses) ?

I have a love/hate relationship with my 406 HDi 90. Its comfy and fairly economical and easy to live with. However, its the first non-GTi type of car I've ever had and its slow, cumbersome and bloody frustrating on 'A' roads if stuck behind slow moving cars/vans/buses/trucks.

My other car is a Seat Leon FR TDi 150 which is remapped to 190bhp/300lb ft but 160 miles a day would devalue it too much for my liking so the Pug is a car I am trying to learn to love!!

I am torn between the £149 TU3 here - http://tuning-diesels.co.uk
or - a superchips remap at £515.

The cost difference is huge. I do 160 miles a day of mostly motorway driving to and from work.

Any advice from those in the know and those with tuning boxes would be excellent.

cheers.

Post by **Welly** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 12:31 pm

As far as I can tell the cheaper tuning boxes simply trick the ECU into pumping in more fuel. Not really that useful if you don't force in more turbocharged air to suit

you will probably only gain a small amount at low revs and that's about it.

A proper re-map is the way to go I would say. They will increase boost pressure and mimic a new fuel map from the existing set up (like a piggy back programme).

You gets what you pay for here. I would prefer to take my car to a re-map specialist who has plenty of HDi experiance and have them carry out the works at there own facility where they can check emissions/temperatures etc.

Benner · Post by **Benner** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 5:42 pm

Would a remap or tuning box eventually 'ruin' your engine? Or is it a case of if its done correctly you will get an increase in performance without any damaged caused ( except the damage to your wallet in fuel costs)

Benner · Post by **Benner** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 7:02 pm

Oh, and if it doesn't end up sacrificing your engine, does anyone know how much you would be looking at to remap a 1.8 16v D8? And from just a remap, what sort of difference would you be expecting?

pugmania · Post by **pugmania** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 10:17 am

My Seat was remapped at 5k miles and now on 32k it is still absolutely fine so I have no fears about remaps.

I'm not sure about tuning boxes though as they simply mask the signals to the ECU and trick it into over fuelling to give the increases. What I don't know is if TB's simply ensure sensor signals are delivered at a flat x% below or above what they should be right across the range or of they are intelligent enough to know what the boost levels are, what the engine revs are and then to alter the signals to best suit the required fuelling.

Remaps make changes to loads of tuning tables, requesting more fuel at certain times and conditions during acceleration/deceleration and under particular boost levels from the turbo. They read all of the engines true inout signals and make fuelling and timing/mixture decisions right across the rev range and vary them as required to continue safe running. They'll also run the boost levels higher than standard and nearer (but not past - if they are any good) the factory set limits.

That is my basic understanding of the two types but I don't know 100% how intelligent a TB is compared to the full remap - it could be a false economy to go with a TB on cost alone. If they were at the same price I'd go for the remap every time but as I'm looking at "chipping" a car that is worth about £3k, to spend £500 on it seems a tad high to me for a remap when I have found a TB for £150.

Captain Jack · Post by **Captain Jack** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 11:55 am

Remap definitely. Go to the derv doctor (Google) in Derbyshire.. He will do it for £350 and has a very good reputation. He's done my 2.1td and it has been brilliant.

Benner · Post by **Benner** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 12:11 pm

Is there a budget way of doing a remap where you can just buy a DIY chip which has been preset to enhance your specific cars performance? Or is it a case of reading your cars values and then basing the remap around that?

Captain Jack · Post by **Captain Jack** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 12:44 pm

There are several way to 'remap' a car. One is a tuning box, which is generic across ALL cars generally. Another is where they remap a car specific to your car make/model. This involves reprogramming your ECU and doesn't need a "box". Another way is same as the 2nd one but they do it with the rolling road - this is the most effective way.

Captain Jack · Post by **Captain Jack** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 12:46 pm

Oh, btw, petrols with no mods don't respond to remaps very easy - you will get a max of 7-10bhp if you're lucky. More if you have a free flow system.

jameslxdt · Post by **jameslxdt** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 2:15 pm

these 'boxes' are bad news for a HDi, they confuse the engine ecu and rail pressure sensor into raising the fuel pressure, yes you will gain power, but your high pressure pump and injectors wont take it for long
i would leave it alone or just settle for a remap, more expensive but a safer option

pugmania · Post by **pugmania** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 6:47 pm

jameslxdt wrote:these 'boxes' are bad news for a HDi, they confuse the engine ecu and rail pressure sensor into raising the fuel pressure, yes you will gain power, but your high pressure pump and injectors wont take it for long
i would leave it alone or just settle for a remap, more expensive but a safer option

Having had a failed high pressure pump at Christmas and spent £1100 sorting it all out (it siezed and pulled the cambelt off at 90 mph) I think the answer is a remap.

Now, which remap then ? (Its just one question after another eh!)

pugmania · Post by **pugmania** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 6:48 pm

jameslxdt wrote:these 'boxes' are bad news for a HDi, they confuse the engine ecu and rail pressure sensor into raising the fuel pressure, yes you will gain power, but your high pressure pump and injectors wont take it for long
i would leave it alone or just settle for a remap, more expensive but a safer option

Having had a failed high pressure pump at Christmas and spent £1100 sorting it all out (it siezed and pulled the cambelt off at 90 mph) I think the answer is a remap.

Now, which remap then ? (Its just one question after another eh!)

jameslxdt · Post by **jameslxdt** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 6:49 pm

you've got a siemens 90 right?
no one does a tuning box for this, and i dont know anyone that can remap it effectively

pugmania · Post by **pugmania** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 7:51 pm

Fantastic! I really am struggling to like this car.

I have found some tuning boxes for the Siemens version and I believe that Superchips may do a remap, but I'd have to double check that and at £515 it aint cheap - in fact too expensive for it to be worthwhile on this car.

campiono46 · Post by **campiono46** » Fri May 18, 2007 2:52 pm

I've booked Angel Tuning to remap my HDi90 tonight for £300. I'll be asking for the maximum Torque increase that he can achieve. The advert says that they can get it up by as much as 48 lb ft on that engine which is a 31% increase so we'll see what actually happens.