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Engine shuts off during driving, then can be started normal

Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2021 12:18 pm
by joydivision
My 406 2.1td has done this twice, have done 1000 km with the car since I bought it and this started yesterday. It shuts off during driving, but only now and then, after you can crank and start it right away and works fine. The first time I was a little scared and didn't look well at everything, I thought it would be lack of fuel, as I was close to reserve (light was on), but then I filled tank and today it's done it again. This time I observed more carefully and actually didn't pull over, just left the car running free, put clutch down and cranked it and it started right away, everything back to normal, didn't do it again after since then, but I suspect it will :( . What I observed while it was shutting off: the fuel gauge went immediately down to zero and battery light went on, but dim, no other indication lights, the engine slowly died just like the other time (probably because it was running in gear with the fuel that was left in lines). I can think of two possibilities: fuel stop solenoid acting bad (this one doesn't have the emergency fuel cut valve that can be reset or does it?? it's only the 1.9, right?) OR, a problem with the ignition barrel switch making contact fail and letting the ecu think the key has been turned off to "accessories" position (where battery light is on and fuel gauge is off). What do you think?
I mean, it's not like the engine stalled due to lack of fuel, because I just tried it, stalling engine on purpose: the three warning lights and "STOP" go on, not like here, here it's only the battery light. So, what can this be? I wouldn't wonder if it's the ignition barrel switch: if I slowly turn the key a little bit from "crank ready position (warning lights on)" back towards accessories position, the lights will go dimmer and sometimes it will go to battery light (accessories position) even a little before the key gets to the supposed position. This means it's worn and making bad contact, right? I have to solve this one, could be dangerous if it cuts off during overtaking, for example.

Re: Engine shuts off during driving, then can be started normal

Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:33 pm
by steve_earwig
No, that doesn't sound safe :shock: Ignition switch sounds like a good start to me, it does sound like a connection (usually it's the a/c fan that shows it up). I don't know about the cut off switch, my 2.1td didn't have one but I think it's worth checking for, which cars had them never seemed to follow any kind of logic.

Re: Engine shuts off during driving, then can be started normal

Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2021 9:21 pm
by joydivision
Thanks, yes, I also think it's the ignition switch - it feels worn, if you turn the key very slowly, there is even a "position" where no lights can be seen at all and in crank-ready position, you can make the lights go dimmer and flicker if you turn the key a little backwards.... shouldn't happen.
Well, I think it doesn't have that safety cut off device. It possibly has the cut off solenoid, but it's probably working just fine, because when the problem occurs, it doesn't cut off immediately like when you really switch the motor off - it loses power, not reacting to throttle, battery light goes on, then finally it stalls.

Re: Engine shuts off during driving, then can be started normal

Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2021 9:14 am
by PeterN
+1 for ignition switch.

Peter

Re: Engine shuts off during driving, then can be started normal

Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2021 11:45 am
by GingerMagic
I was initially thinking it's the Crank Position Sensor, bit when that goes the car will just stall and die on you - so after reading how your car behaves when this happens I'm inclined to think it's the ignition switch too

These can be obtained online, as a worn switch can also affect your blower motor among other things.

Or you can remove it and clean it, you seem to know what you are doing :cheesy:

Re: Engine shuts off during driving, then can be started normal

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:52 am
by joydivision
Yes, crank shaft position sensor also occurred to me, but the way it happens does look more like the ignition switch. It gives indeed the idea of being worn, so I'm not sure a simple "refurbishment" will be enough for this one... I'll try to get a new one locally tomorrow or, if that turns out difficult, order one from EBay.

Re: Engine shuts off during driving, then can be started normal

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:54 pm
by joydivision
No luck at local dealers, it's too old... I'll have to get it from EBay or maybe here in Portugal from classifieds site, I've seen some. Problem: I don't know the part number or the exact appearance of the connectors - I know the one for the '99 onwards is different, that I know for sure, have seen on EBay. But even the one before, which appears to be the right platform, I'm not sure If there are differences between petrol and diesel models, I mean, I'm not sure if several versions existed... Does anyone have any hints about this or do I have to dismantle the covers and try to get a look at the wiring? Right now I'm using the car almost daily, it's not very practical to do it, but I'd like to sort this quickly (although it hasn't ever done it again...), but I obviously don't want to buy a wrong switch, either.

Re: Engine shuts off during driving, then can be started normal

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:23 pm
by steve_earwig
Sadly we no longer have access to the parts diagrams (thanks PSA :roll: ) but to be honest I wouldn't have trusted them 100% anyway, not for something you can't return. Maybe it'll be easier to see if you take the covers off the column :?

Re: Engine shuts off during driving, then can be started normal

Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:48 am
by GingerMagic
I replaced the switch on our old Citroen Picasso - it was relatively easy apart from the replacement part was about 3cm shorter so only just connected at both ends ...

It looks like this.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PEUGEOT-206- ... 635-2958-0

There are others on eBay, some genuine parts, some made by a 13 year old in China :shock:
Have a look :cheesy:

Re: Engine shuts off during driving, then can be started normal

Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:17 am
by joydivision
Just had a look, that's one of them, yes, I've seen it, but I think it's only from '99 onwards... there's another one that is more difficult to find and mostly as a used original part, which mostly states the years 1998 and 1997... so I'm going to follow Steve's advice of not risking and to take the covers off first, to be sure which part it is. But thanks anyway :)

Re: Engine shuts off during driving, then can be started normal

Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:14 pm
by Doggy
Just a thought.

Since you are clearly able to make changes to the electrical system safely why not temporarily use a separate, hidden switch for the ignition until you find what you need?

Obviously you must take care the steering lock does not affect your driving, but if you keep the starter operation on the key you should be fine.

Re: Engine shuts off during driving, then can be started normal

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 12:09 am
by joydivision
I'm glad I took the covers off... did it today and was easy. It's in fact the other one that exists. The key barrel is 447022. Here are some photos (not so good... hard to take...) I took of it and also a couple of images off the net. Now I know how to find the right one and order. I think it won't be very easy to fit, though, because the cables are all very tightly packed together and access is difficult, I also remember reading in Haynes manual about some "locking pin", but I'll research well and maybe there's even some video on Youtube, you never know. It also helps that I found pics on the net of the whole thing dismantled, helps to understand how it goes all together. Most of them are the complete unit. One of them shows only the ignition switch itself.
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Re: Engine shuts off during driving, then can be started normal

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 12:10 am
by joydivision
Your idea is nice, doggy, especially if I wouldn't manage to find the part and it would fail a lot, but I don't think it will be necessary, it hasn't done it anymore since then, and I'm already finding a few of the correct parts on the net (used), not expensive. So I'll simply get one of them.

Re: Engine shuts off during driving, then can be started normal

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:41 am
by GingerMagic
Good work.

The locking pin is simply a pin that stops the barrel from being pulled away when you pull the key out - if I remember correctly the pin needs to be pressed in, and the key in position 1, then you can slide the barrel towards you to release it.
I'm not sure how good the Haynes Book of Fantasy (HBoF) is though...

Again, I did this on my wife's car and I found it easy and I'm a rubbish mechanic..!

Re: Engine shuts off during driving, then can be started normal

Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2021 8:55 am
by joydivision
OK :) hopefully it will be easy then. And yes, athough I do like Haynes (I had one for my second car, too), comes in really handy at times, but sometimes the instructions are to be taken with a grain of salt, so I had a good laugh at the way you called them :lol: