406oc.co.uk

Hello all,
I'm a granny who has just purchased a 2001 406 exec estate HDi 110 2 litre to be able to take grandkids camping. 144k . I just put it through a full service with added remedial works to fix some advisories from last MOT including 2 tyres, 2 front brake flexi pipes, front exhaust with flexi and cat etc (over £630) The garage said the cause of the fumes in the cab was the flexi pipe but it hasn't fixed the problem! It can happen with windows down but its intermittent.
I took it back to the garage and they checked it again, it didn't smell while there (typical) They say no gases escaping from injectors. They say small blow from back box but doubted it was that. They say some sitting oil along edge of what I would say looks like the rocker box cover, but said that would only be an issue if oil dropped on exhaust and that that is a different smell. Best thing they said to drive it and bring it in when it is happening. But it makes me sooo sick! banging head etc and there is no way I can risk putting little ones in it. Any suggestions?
Couple of other issues which are making me rapidly fall out of love with this car...
HANDBRAKE is very poor, needs yanking up to very top and then I don't trust it and takes 2 hands to release. I also had them look at this after the service (which I assumed included adjusting it) and he said it is all working fine (inboard discs) and that is just how it is. any thoughts? They said it would fly through MOT, he tested hand brake on rolling road.
BRAKE PEDAL has a very low biting point to any car I've driven which is a bit unnerving. Some of the remedial works done were 2 new front brake flexi hoses and I took it back again and they bleed them again...no improvement.
Any helpful thoughts are gratefully received. Julia

HI Julia and welcome aboard.

I know the garage discounted a leaking injector seal, but in my experience that is the most likely cause, (particularly if it is a very sharp, almost solvent-like smell). Unfortunately it's possible for this problem to come and go, not showing itself for weeks at a time. A few possible easy/cheap ways to confirm an injector leak:
1. Spray some WD40 around the base of the injectors, (preferably when you can smell it) and look for air bubbles in the sprayed liquid, (with engine running).
2. With the bonnet open / engine acoustic cover removed you may be able to hear a different noise from one injector.
3. A leaking injector sometimes sprays oil/fuel on the underside of the acoustic cover - one of my 2.2 HDi's had foam rubber insulation on the underside, the injector leak made a hole in the insulation. If you can clean the inside of the cover, or put some light coloured cloth tape on it then check for staining next time you get the smell.

PLEASE BE CAREFUL - A FUEL LEAK OR LEAK FROM INSIDE THE CYLINDERS CAN BE AT HIGH PRESSURE, use gloves/eye protection.

406 handbrakes often don't work well, but can be made to work properly. Yours sounds like it may only need the cable adjusted, which can be done quickly/easily from inside the car - not a certain cure, but worth trying first. (It doesn't have inboard discs, but a small brake drum for the handbrake inside the rear disc assembly).

Does the brake pedal feel any better if you release and re-press the pedal?

Hi Julia,

Is it smelling like exhaust? Or like "fresh" diesel fuel? If you can't tell the difference, ask some-one else to smell with you as soon as it happens.

juliat wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:43 pm HANDBRAKE is very poor, needs yanking up to very top

Handbrakes are the rear drum brakes (the rear disk brakes are for the normal foot break). Adjusting the handbrakes is very easy, any good mechanic can do it; it's a 10 minute job. These cars are known for badly adjusted handbrakes, they need to be re-adjusted at least once a year. But once adjusted correctly, they work really well: 6 to 7 clicks and the car will stay put on a steep slope.

juliat wrote: ↑Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:43 pm BRAKE PEDAL has a very low biting point

Go back to the garage and tell them to fix this. This is obviously a malfunction and can be dangerous. On my 406 HDI the brake pedal is perfect, and braking is rock solid. Did your garage replace the brake fluid (I mean: all of it)? That would be a first advice.

Hi Julia, welcome.

Generally the 406 is a pretty robust and underrated car, however like all cars it will need maintenance if not looked after ..

Initially I thought you needed a new Flexi as when this flexes too much ( worn engine mounts then a wobbly engine ) it can let fumes in.

Doggy could have a point about the injector leaking a bit, you may hear a chuff chuff noise, like Ivor the Engine, but hard to detect over the diesel engine noise.

Possibly a boot seal, if there is a split or tear in this then the exhaust smell will be 'pulled' into the car through the seal when you are driving....

The handbrake is a 406 weak point, however as suggested a properly adjusted one is fine, in fact mine is excellent and I'm well surprised..!
It's straight forward to adjust it once you are used to the design, it's different to some other cars and not all garages will have done one before...

As for your low brake pedal, that is unusual to be honest, but not my area of expertise - although all cars are different and maybe this is normal compared to what you are used to? The 406 is an older and heavier car and it's brakes are not as sharp as modern equivalents ( it took me a while to get used to )
If you are worried though, it may be worth a second opinion from a proper old school garage.

I hope you get it all sorted, it's an excellent all round car and it should be enjoyed - you haven't had the best start but once up together you should be very happy with it.

Best wishes,
Kelv

Boot seal would be my first choice for exhaust gas. also check that it is closing firmly against the seal, ie the latch is adjusted properly and not loose. Injector seal leak can be checked by using the recirculate function. If it goes away when operating it, leak is from engine bay.

As above, handbrake is a shoe/drum setup inside the brake disc. There is an adjusting wheel accessible through a hole in the face of the drum. That must be adjusted to bring the shoes. as close to the drum surface without binding at all. Check the shoes have a good amount of friction material also.

Spongy brakes after what you have done is probably seized floating pins on the rear calipers. They can be freed up by removing the calipers and pressing the pins out, cleaning the bearing surfaces, greasing up and reassembling. Will also pay to check all pistons in front and rear calipers are free moving, ie not seized up.

Hello! Wow thank you for your responses, much appreciated. I live Shepton Mallet BA4 5XW UK
I've been taking it out for 30-mile trips, mixed speeds and road types, to try to get fumes again, no 'joy' yet! (Windows up, windows down, fan on/off etc) I've stopped in laybys and at home, opened the bonnet and sniffed the engine which seems absolutely fine. I've sniffed in the boot too. The engine bay is dry and clean, only a bit of oil sitting on the front of the rocker box as I mentioned.
It is a lovely drive, sits on the road nicely and is certainly a lot more powerful than the Agila 1.2 it will replace... when I can sort these fumes and other issues and can sell it! (running two cars was not in the plan lol)
Right... having read all your wonderful responses I can add this (also at bottom another issue/question...)

Ref FUMES
Yes, it is a sharp solvent-like smell, def. exhaust. Hits the back of my throat and is like having needles stuck in my eyes.
The acoustic cover is actually off as fixings are broken and it was sitting on cables and had rubbed through to the wires. which are now taped up (by garage) I will take a look at it tomorrow for tale tell signs.
I will carry WD40 with me AND protective gear (thanks for that tip) and spray if/when it happens again.
The point about the boot fitting properly and the seal is very interesting! The boot doesn't always shut on the first go and I will research any adjustment possible, I will also check the seal. But wouldn't that suck in gases all the time?

Ref BRAKE PEDAL
The feel of the brake pedal doesn't get better with re-applying pressure ie foot on and off and on again. They do work and it does stop (if you stomp) but I'm used to a 'hard' pedal with a subtle pressure feel and a good instant bite. (Agila has great brakes!) They are far from that. I agree they should be better... Point noted about changing the brake fluid, after 20 yrs probably well overdue! and sounds like things need stripping down to check everything is moving and working as they should. I'm glad you agree with me...I think the garage thinks I'm a car hypochondriac!

Ref HANDBRAKE
It's so good to know this can be improved! as following an operation I have to be careful how much effort I put through my left arm. Garage said cables can get stiff - is that a thing?

SOUNDS LIKE BOTTOM OF CAR IS GONNA FALL OUT
When going over rough ground, bumpy road it's bang-bang rattle rattle. Took it back to the garage again, they checked and said it 'nothing dangerous' just the handbrake cables banging on a heat shield and 'put up with it' When I mentioned that a new 406 wouldn't sound like that he said well the heatshields has been hit and cables have moved over the years etc. I asked if the cables could be tied up out of the way but he said no' they have to move. Is there a workaround ?? as it spoils the enjoyment of this quality cruising machine (ever hopeful) I was thinking of trying to find some high tech heat resistant wadding and get them to pad the space to stop it - drives me nuts!

Found out today the A/C doesn't work - when I get more important stuff fixed I suppose I will take it to an A/C facility.

Thanks again, xx Julia

Methinks you need to find another workshop....

WillNZ wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:18 am Methinks you need to find another workshop....

I was thinking that too.

Handbrake cables can stick, my last 406 had that problem with one of the 2 rear cables.
I freed it off enough to get by, but really should have changed it.

Are you sure the noise is from the handbrake cables? (never encountered that before).
Most common cause is worn front anti roll bar links, ("drop links") or less often the equivalent rear suspension links.
(Noise only happens on bumps, silent otherwise).

If the smell is exhaust fumes entering the car from the back, it will the same smell you get from the exhaust pipe.

Acoustic hood missing is harmless - just a little bit noisier. HDi 90/110 fixings were pretty useless so this is common.
Maybe you can clean the area of the underside of the bonnet above the injectors so you can tell if any new localised staining develops.

Brake pedal feel - with the engine stopped, press the pedal several times.
If surroundings are quiet enough, you should hear a hiss as the vacuum reserve in the brake servo is used up. (Typically you will hear diminishing noises on each application, maybe up to 3 times, maybe only once). Let us know what you hear.
(If you want to repeat, just run the engine foe a minute or two).

Once the hiss has completely gone, or after say 5/6 presses, press the pedal as hard as you can - does the pedal now feel solid?
If it doesn't you almost certainly have air in the system and the brakes need bleeding, if the pedal is rock solid with a really firm press, you may have a vacuum system leak or brake servo problem.

As for the hand brakes: my experience is to that the adjustment weel (a toothed wheel that can be rotated through a small hole in the drum) must be tightened to the point where the drum is just not binding. So: tighten until it binds, then slacken only just enough to be able to turn the drum again by hand.

At that point, the drum will kind of grind a bit when rotated, but that is ok. As soon as the car is back on the wheels, with all of the appropriate tension on the bearings and suspension, the griding is gone.

The tighter the adjustment (up to the point of binding), the more the breaking force improves, is my experience.

Firstly, congratulations on your choice of car, I ran diesel estates for 10 years and I think they are the best cars Peugeot ever made.

To check your exhaust for leaks, press a folded up rag hard against the end of the exhaust with the engine ticking over, if there is a leak you should hear it hissing under the car.

After many years of an ineffective handbrake, (probably the only fault in design) I eventually found that once the wheel adjusters are set correctly adjust the cable length so that the lever only comes a couple of inches off the floor, this puts it in a better position for you to exert some force on it. Set the rear cable center adjuster so that there is the minimum amount of slack without the brakes binding, you will get a little resistance but you should be able to turn the wheels without to much difficulty.

Peter

Brake pedal feel - with the engine stopped, press the pedal several times.
If surroundings are quiet enough, you should hear a hiss as the vacuum reserve in the brake servo is used up. (Typically you will hear diminishing noises on each application, maybe up to 3 times, maybe only once). Let us know what you hear.

OK...I did this, couldn't hear any hissing (I'm a bit deaf me thinks ) Did 4/5 good presses, the pedal came up and was nice and hard and didn't go down under continued pressure. If it felt like that in use I'd be happy bunny.

Now I've got a new glitch....a judder felt and heard when the brake pedal gets to bottom of application, though not every time. I have spoken to the garage and they say an ABS fault with either a 'reluctor' ring (I may have misheard that) or CV joint ?? Does that sound right? What has a CV joint got to do with the ABS brakes?

Methinks you need to find another workshop....

Taken your thoughts on board. I use a local garage because I can walk there and back to collect car. But they did wrongly adjust the brakes on my daughters 2003 Astra so the fluid boiled and she lost her brakes completely.....so perhaps I shouldn't have stuck with them. When I made them collect it and re-do the work he said 'see how you go now...' I made him put a heat gun on the drums to check for binding... ( FYI They are the second garage in Shepton Mallet to do that to her car! The first was in 'the good garage' scheme...I complained to them and they didn't want to know... But I did refuse to pay the bill much to their annoyance...go girl! )

Anyways...I've found a family garage in the next town (Glastonbury) that specialises in Pugs ( see I'm learning the lingo ) and taking it in on Tuesday next week for them to drive and have a look at and get their opinion.

Acoustic hood missing is harmless - just a little bit noisier. HDi 90/110 fixings were pretty useless so this is common.
Maybe you can clean the area of the underside of the bonnet above the injectors so you can tell if any new localised staining develops.

The acoustic hood was on there when I bought it, the garage said to take it off as it was resting on and damaging the cables. I've looked at the underside of it and apart from dents there is no staining or oil or smell to be found.
I'm still driving it everyday and waiting expectantly for the fumes so I can spray my WD40 (with my protective gear on of course)

Boot seal would be my first choice for exhaust gas. also check that it is closing firmly against the seal, ie the latch is adjusted properly and not loose. I seal leak can be checked by using the recirculate function. If it goes away when operating it, leak is from engine bay.

I've checked the boot seal and it looks perfect. though as I said tailgate doesn't always shut first time but seems firm when it does. Wouldn't this suck in fumes all the time? I will certainly try the 'recirculate' test when the fumes return.

Have a lovely weekend everyone, I will do an update after Tuesday....I'm sure you are all on the edges of your seats.

Oh some good news! me thinks
Just been looking through the file of receipts that came with car and found the following
March 2020 REAR brake pads and OSR Caliper fitted
March 2021 NSR brake Caliper fitted
ooo er they are not cheap are they! calipers £120 a time plus vat
So at least they have been changed and hopefully its just poor adjustment.

You go girl..!!

If you go to the Pug garage and say 'my handbrake is poo' I'm sure they will say ' is it a 406??'...

The reluctor ring is like a toothed wheel that spins round with the wheels, each tooth is detected by a sensor and this calculates how fast the car is going ( for the Speedo) and also to use for the cruise control to keep a constant speed.

However, if you stomp on the brake pedal and the wheels lock up and you skid, the sensor detects the teeth on the ring have stopped too, and enables the abs

A sign of a broken ring is a pulsing brake pedal, no idea why, I'm no mechanic sadly.

Does the cruise control work?

At least you have new rear calipers ( I bought 2 new ones for £90 so not sure where that price cam from...! )
Although with regular lubrication on the sliders they should last years

The rear calipers are not the handbrake, just there for braking purposes - the handbrake is a separate set up tucked inside the mini drum/disc combo.

Anyhow, good luck with the Pug garage, I'm sure you will get some sensible answers with possible mild scoffing and the other garages expense...

Glad to hear you have found a garage that seems to know pugs

As frog says, front/rear drop links are the most likely source of underbody rattles. I also have never had handbrake cables rattle and I have owned 406's since 2001, have owned more than is remotely sensible and currently still in possession of 7....

Every one I have bought has had a poor hand brake. But checking shoes have good linings, are not glazed, drum is not worn out by car being driven with handbrake on, shoes are correctly adjusted with wheel, cables are free and properly adjusted, the handbrake works fine. I can lock up the rear wheels of all my 406's without having to yank on the lever.

Pulsing brake pedal can be caused by dirty reluctor rings or sensors coated with metal filings. Remove sensors and clean, make sure the teeth on rings are also free of foreign material.

Get the new garage to check the sliders on the calipers are free. I would put money on them being responsible for your spongy brake pedal.

I have owned more than is remotely sensible and currently still in possession of 7...

Blimey WillNZ! Do you need to talk to someone about that? (only joking - honestly xx)

front/rear drop links are the most likely source of underbody rattles.

If it is that I'm gonna be majorly p***d off and even angry (and I never get angry) with the original garage if they are shot.
I've been, along with my daughter's car, clients of their's for years and he knows it came in for a full service AND I specifically requested a safety check over AND he knows the reason because I travel my grandkids around.
I will be interested to find out.
It's not like I've ever quibbled over work needed on any vehicle, so he'd better not try the 'I didn't mention it 'cos they are not that bad and I didn't think you needed to spend the money' excuse. I've never moaned about a single bill...I've taken it back 'cos of the b***dy noise, made him road test, told him how bad it is....This is how some people get treated at the doctors when they keep going back with symptoms and then find out 'oh yeah' you are ill.......grrrrrr

We shall see, hopefully, it's a cable issue, .... thanks again for this help and a sounding board. x Julia (thinking of taking up smoking or perhaps I'll just walk the dog )