406oc.co.uk

Scrtching my head over this one......

Daughter's other half has a Ford S MAx 1.8 diesel. Clutch packed in on his way home last Friday night - complete failure to disengage.
I went over & drove it home for him by starting it in gear & changing gear without the clutch.
He took it to one place, who diagnosed need for clutch kit+dmf, £1500
Tried alternate quotes - Mr Clutch said £600, but when I got him to make sure that incuded everything it became £1000 with dmf

I tried an indy I used for a few jobs on the Cistern, got it down to £950, booked it in for this morning.
Picked it up from first place on Tuesday, to my surprise the clutch was now partially disengaging
Couldn't get it into 1st but if you held the lever against the gate it started moving forward, then dropped into gear once it reached walking pace. Still wouldn't change gear easily and definitely wouldn't go into reverse with the engine running, (no snychro methinks).
Scoured the internet for clues, got nowhere but found tales of bleeding similar clutches, so had a look. Couldn't find anything. Common brake/clutch reservoir (transparent) looks full, couldn't budge the filler cap/didn't want to break it trying. Apparently it has a 'concentric' slave cylinder so no access to that end. Resolved to discuss with mechanic this morning.
Started it up today, same performance to get into first, but then it started working normally. Perfect gearchanges, goes into reverse easily, fully disengages before pedal reaches the floor. Go figure.
Pedal felt normal throughout whether it was disengaging or not, returned to rest position as it should, didin't stay pressed. I'm baffled.

Guy at the garg=age shrugged his shoulders, suggested running it for a few days and see what happens.

Anybody ever had anything similar?

Nope, that's bizarre Umm, sounds more like just the hydraulics to me, can it be bled? Maybe the brakes have been done in the past but not the clutch and it's full of sputum. Filler cap, it's got to be opened some time, if it breaks it breaks. Bleed it, drive it, if it messes up again find someone with some common sense and who is ok to just change just the slave cylinder if that's all that needs changing. Not sure if those quotes are parts and labour or just parts though, it might be a swine to get to.

Yes, I am fully convinced of the need for concentric slave cylinders

Clutch kit inc slave cylinder about £250 far as I could tell. probably a shade more for the dmf. Labour about 6 hours at best.
Trouble is some of these can only have the thrust assembly fitted once, (like a 406).
Suspect that if you strip any of it down, replacing the lot is pretty much the only sensible option.

A bit of me thinks that if the slave cylinder is working & not leaking, thrust bearing is quiet, no clutch slip and no worn DMF noise/wobble it's sensible to explore everything external. (Master cylinder, reservoir, possibly even a fluid change).

I asked the guy about bleeding it, he didn't think it was worth it if there was no sign of sponginess.

Guess we'll find out in due course.

Doggy wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:22 am Labour about 6 hours at best.

Ah, that's what I was worried about, then it wouldn't make any sense not to change the whole kit and kaboodle once it was in bits.

It's not air in the system that's the concern, it's bits of junk floating about in it blocking off passages etc. Akchewerly, if the lid's welded itself on it makes you wonder when the brake fluid was last changed, not sure if they test brake fluid on the mot there yet - should be changed every 3 years or less. Don't know how old the car is, S-max was produced from 2006 (hey, I have a t-shirt for them thats probably that old) so if it's never been changed...

2009 101k miles. Brake fluid was added to the list of nice little earners a few years back, but doesn't seem to get checked everywhere yet.
(Campervan passed though we couldn't free the rusted relaese cable and open the bonnet, shhhhh!)

Changing the fluid is £40/£50 here in my limited experience, but I guess you'd never actually change the liquid in the slave cylinders. Does that matter?

I think checking brake fluid is more good than bad, you know when you change brake fluid and it's black and lumpy and you think to yourself - I was relying on that! Even if it ain't black and disgusting it does absorb moisture from the air and can boil under heavy breaking. Plus I don't trust the locals here not to replace it with home-made brandy.

I'd have thought the clutch gets used at least as much, probably more than the brakes, albeit it in not such a harsh environment. I wouldn't have thought it would boil (unless the bearing is welding itself solid) but after 12-13 years it's probably pretty gross.

steve_earwig wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 4:10 pm .... it's probably pretty gross.

Ain't that the truth.
The hydraulic fluid's probably none too special either.
Looks like you can book it online with KwikFit for £34.95, (no mention of clutch though).

The miraculously cured clutch stayed that way until yesterday, when it repeated the 'i'm not going to disengage protest' for a couple of hours before deciding to play nice, at least for now.
Discoved my brother-in-law, (who's a service tech working for the Fire Service), has experienced this before & is sure it's due to crap in the fluid collecting at the slave cylinder. He reckons bleed the clutch getting as much muck out as possible is the way to go.

So I appear to have been volunteered to crawl under another car outside in the winter.

Doggy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 6:52 pm outside...winter

That sounds like fun* (It's -6 here this morning). What happened to 35 quid in Thickfit?

I just thought, you'll probably need to visit a breaker's for the reservoir, sods law says if you don't have one in reserve you'll break it (and if you do it'll come off like butter )

steve_earwig wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:34 am

Doggy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 6:52 pm outside...winter

That sounds like fun* (It's -6 here this morning). What happened to 35 quid in Thickfit?

Brother in law's detailed description involved traditional rubber tube/container of brake fluid, just cracking the bleed nipple, very gentle hand operation of clutch pedal, careful observation etc. All of which are strong contra-indicators for utilising the proposed supplier.

Could still be an idea to get it done if DIY looks to have removed most of the crap from the system.

I think 2 pairs of grips to hold the reservoir & unscrew the cap should work, but I plan to warm it up with an old towel soaked in hot water first. It's +9 degrees and miserable as sin here......