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GTI-6 running gear into a 406?
Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 7:55 am
by STALLED
Hey,
Yesterday when I snapped my clutch cable I was down at my local mechanic having a chat. In the workshop there were two GTI-6's and I thought to myself "hey the running gear of one of those would go allright in the 406"....so this has got me thinking....would it fit (even the Xsara VTS which has the stronger BE3) or is it just a waste of my time and money, it would be better spent on a V6?
Thanks heaps!
Joel
Re: GTI-6 running gear into a 406?
Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 7:02 pm
by jameslxdt
it will go straight in with only a few minor wiring alterations, with 167 bhp its a great place to start, and has far more tuning potential than the V6, the main issue is torque comes along at 5000rpm, not what you want in a 1.5 tonne barge, once moving though it would be quite a beast, i would use the standard 2.0 16v gearbox as this is already quite close ratio, with a £££ spent 200bhp is easily attainable, though if you can source the BTCC parts (seen a few on ebay for mucho £££) a reliable N/A 240bhp is possible
though you may aswell forget about fuel economy
Re: GTI-6 running gear into a 406?
Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:37 am
by linukas
sorry for post, but i can't find any info about gti-6 gearbox into 406. I've got 2.0 8 valve turbo engine and i want gti-6 gearbox to put into my 406 coupe. is it imposible ? Has anybody tried or just talks ? thanks for help
P.S. sorry for pour english
Re: GTI-6 running gear into a 406?
Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:07 pm
by Welly
linukas wrote:sorry for post, but i can't find any info about gti-6 gearbox into 406. I've got 2.0 8 valve turbo engine and i want gti-6 gearbox to put into my 406 coupe. is it imposible ? Has anybody tried or just talks ? thanks for help
P.S. sorry for pour english
And it was all going pretty well until then, you would have got away without saying that
(welcome BTW)
Re: GTI-6 running gear into a 406?
Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:50 pm
by linukas
cheers mate
Anybody nows ?
dam... again quiet
Re: GTI-6 running gear into a 406?
Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 2:03 pm
by mjb
linukas wrote:I've got 2.0 8 valve turbo engine and i want gti-6 gearbox
You have an engine that's useless over 4000-4500rpm and you want to put a gearbox on it that's designed for a car that only starts to get going at 5000rpm?
I have a feeling you don't really want to do this, unless you want the top speed of your car to be ridiculously low
Re: GTI-6 running gear into a 406?
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 1:12 am
by linukas
mjb wrote:linukas wrote:I've got 2.0 8 valve turbo engine and i want gti-6 gearbox
You have an engine that's useless over 4000-4500rpm and you want to put a gearbox on it that's designed for a car that only starts to get going at 5000rpm?
I have a feeling you don't really want to do this, unless you want the top speed of your car to be ridiculously low
so you are saying that my max speed will be 110 miles after gti-6 gearbox ?
if thats true, i dont need any more this gerabox + i'l save about 150 pounds.
cheers mjb
Re: GTI-6 running gear into a 406?
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:06 pm
by jameslxdt
have a read of this:
http://www.pug306.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=32351
discussed many times on here before, it will fit, but there is just no point
Re: GTI-6 running gear into a 406?
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:07 pm
by mjb
Want to check that link? Looks a bit broken to me
Re: GTI-6 running gear into a 406?
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:18 pm
by jameslxdt
works for me, though you may have to log in
Re: GTI-6 running gear into a 406?
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:21 pm
by jameslxdt
ok you have to be signed in, so here we go:
The GTi6 gearbox was specifically put together in mind with the XU10J4RS engine.
It will fit any XU block with a small modifcation to the steering rack as the 6th gear housing protrudes quite some way.
This includes diesels. However, there is very little point in mating it to a XUD block unless you are going to seriously play with the final drive, 3rd and 6th gear ratios.
The GTi6 has a rev limit of 7250 rpm and for example is capable of 67mph in 2nd on this rev limit. A dturbo has a rev limit of 4350 or thereabouts. In conclusion it would do about 39mph in 2nd and have a top speed of something like 90mph in 6th.
You would be forever changing gears to try and keep the car at optimum torque. And as we all know, turbo diesel have a minute torque band where as a GTi6 will happily pull from 3500 all the way to the limiter.
The same applies to fitting the box to other XU engines. Its been done many times successfully but you have to remember a XSi has a rev limit of 6750. And beleive it or not if you are travelling at 70mph in 5th in an XSi and 70mph in 6th in a GTi6, you would be using more rpm in the GTi! But because of the GTi6s unique final drive it will carry on to 158mph in 6th. Calculated against the 7250 rpm limiter.
Things you have to bare in mind if changing to a BE3/6 geabox
-The size of it. You will need to cut away the arch lining to accomodate the 6th gear housing
-Steering rack. Will need to be modified otherwise major scrubbage will occur and/or tyre wear
- Fitting. There are 1 extra fixing points on the Gti6 block, other blocks do not have these but its not really an issue
-Linkage. The GTi6 has a lift mechanism on the gearlever to prevent accidently going into 6th at XXmph! Ive heard this can be an ass to fit correctly.
-Clutch. The GTi6 uses a different clutch plate to most other XU engined 306s.
-
Re: GTI-6 running gear into a 406?
Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:22 pm
by steve_earwig
Looks ok to me too
Re: GTI-6 running gear into a 406?
Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:02 am
by mjb
Sorry, but you do not have permission to use this feature. If you are not logged in, you may do so using the form below if available.
That's while logged in.
Re: GTI-6 running gear into a 406?
Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:46 pm
by mikey s
'The same applies to fitting the box to other XU engines. Its been done many times successfully but you have to remember a XSi has a rev limit of 6750. And beleive it or not if you are travelling at 70mph in 5th in an XSi and 70mph in 6th in a GTi6, you would be using more rpm in the GTi!'
thats the biggest load of bollocks i have ever read on a public forum!!
Re: GTI-6 running gear into a 406?
Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:54 pm
by mjb
mikey s wrote:'The same applies to fitting the box to other XU engines. Its been done many times successfully but you have to remember a XSi has a rev limit of 6750. And beleive it or not if you are travelling at 70mph in 5th in an XSi and 70mph in 6th in a GTi6, you would be using more rpm in the GTi!'
thats the biggest load of bollocks i have ever read on a public forum!!
Why is it?
GTi6
according to the above quote would do 158mph in 6th at 7250rpm. That means it's doing 3212rpm at 70mph
Presuming the XSi is the same as the 406 tubby, it'll be doing around 2800rpm at 70mph.
Therefore the statement's true.
Further, we can work out the 6th gear ratio of the GTi6 to equate to 0.021793mph per rpm. When fixed to an XU10J2TE, at the high end of revs (which is 4000rpm) that means the top speed will be 87mph. At that sort of low ratio you could probably push it to 4500rpm for 98mph or even above for short periods but the engine really doesn't like being up there.
