406oc.co.uk

Hi guys,
I brought a 96 2L turbo exec a year ago and love it to bits. I brought it with all mods it's got on it.
I find that it is quite sluggish, I know it is a heavy car, but before I had a 309GRi with the 1.6injection engine and it used to fly off the lights.
A friend of mine who is into turbo cars noticed the atompheric blow off valve was jammed, so we replaced that and now she hisses nicley, but to little power gain.
I did have a problem with the turbo inlet being blocked and it wouldn't rev past 2500rpm, but thats all sorted and now have a cone filter on it for a nice engine note. But when testing it, we ran it without the pipe from the tubro to the engine and could hear the turbo in full glory spinning up and whistling down. We have bypased the valve which pulses the vacum pipe to the wastegate as they apparently have a habbit of going, so it should be quite aggressive when the turbo spools up at revs.
But even with these she is sluggish, I got beat by a f**cking clio the other day and reading all forums and whatnot about the exec turbo, it is meant to be quite rapid.

It will hit limited top speed, but just acceleration isn't what I would expect, in first gear I feel the turbo pulse, but not in other gears. I havn't been in another 2L turbo as I don't know anyone with the rare beast, so I can't compare, but even with HDI's, you feel the turbo kick in, but not with mine

Oh, and just fyi, I have a random slight tapping on the top of the engine, people say it is a gunked up tappit ot tappit shaft, it is more noticable when cold starts, kind of like a cracking noise but with no rythum, just random, I got told not to worry about it and it would be very expensive to fix.

She also gets hot when not moving, in most traffic buildups, the temp goes up to 90-100 and the fans have to keep it cool, but at 30+ she stays at 75-80ish, it doesn't seem to stay steady. My old 309 used to heat up quickly but I knew I had a blown oil seal on one of the pistons and the oil used to bubble up and become like mayo in the filler cap. Nothing of the sort on this one.

I have thoughts about adjusting the wasegate to increase boost, but I don't have a boost gadge and I worry about blowing piston rings and head gaskets like my old one.

Can anyone suggest what to do with her or where to take her? I live in Chester but havn't been here for long so don't know any places around here. I was thinking of taking her to pug for a full service and ask for them to check the turbo and boost pressure and paying thorugh the nose for it?
I have been under the car and the turbo itself looks too new for the car age, it's the correct Garrett T25 so I think it's been replaced at some point because it looks newish and clean.

Any input would be nice as I just feel a bit dissapointed to be driving a turbo car which supermini's can beat

Smelliot wrote:I find that it is quite sluggish, I know it is a heavy car, but before I had a 309GRi with the 1.6injection engine and it used to fly off the lights
....
in first gear I feel the turbo pulse, but not in other gears. I havn't been in another 2L turbo as I don't know anyone with the rare beast, so I can't compare, but even with HDI's, you feel the turbo kick in, but not with mine

You won't. The XU10J2TE is a very lazy engine with a very subtle turbocharger. It has the power and torque, but it's more drunk than responsive. If you try to drive it like a normal high-revver you'll get nowhere with it. You need to play by its rules and drive it like a diesel. Don't expect it to thrust you into your seat, don't go anywhere near the red line, don't drop the revs but do slip the clutch while changing under hard acceleration...

She also gets hot when not moving, in most traffic buildups, the temp goes up to 90-100 and the fans have to keep it cool, but at 30+ she stays at 75-80ish, it doesn't seem to stay steady.

That's normal. You've essentially got 3 radiators (coolant, aircon, intercooler) jammed right next to each other at the front so convection doesn't work well - it needs airflow.

Cheers for that, I have found slipping the clutch during gear changes under harsh acceleration seems to help lug it around. I've never been to the red line on it as thats what fudged up my 309 so am scared.

I also thought it wasn't boosting correctly as on the motorway at 70ish just below 3000rpm it struggles up hills a bit, I find i have to drop a gear and spool the turbo up or just drive at speeds above 3000rpm and feel like I've got a drill hole in my petrol tank.

This is the first time in the year I've had the car that I've found a useful site with advice and people who know what they are on about! I would like to say a big thanks and expect to see a bit more from me.

Also, what are your thoughts on the cracking/tapping from the top of the engine? reading past posts leads me to believe it's a valve riser but I've only seen it on posts to do with TD's, not petrol? Would a good oil change and engine flush help this?

Oh, and the heated seats don't work The buttons light up so the fuse and power is getting there, but the seats don't get warm. This is a good thing as I don't use them, but it would be nice to have everything on the car working.

Jesus, the list of things seems to grow now I've found people who know what they are on about.....
When the car is hot, 90to100deg-ish and I park it up the fans are on. I turn it off and the fans turn off too, they don't stay on after? Is that right, my 309 used to cool itself when parked up when hot... Also, if I come back to it after a few mins, whilst it is still hot, start it up and the revs just go mad, it bounces up and down and goes so low the whole car and exhaust rattles like crazy! I have to hold the revs with the throttle. It's never been good at balancing it's revs when it's first fired up and I got told thats because the dump valve isn't a recirculating valve, is that right or am I getting smoke blown at me?

Next job is the cambelt (deffinatly a garage jobbie, I'm not that confident with cars, unless anyone is offering? ) and an air con re-gas for the summer, it gets cold, but not ice cold

Smelliot wrote: When the car is hot, 90to100deg-ish and I park it up the fans are on. I turn it off and the fans turn off too, they don't stay on after?

Welcome mate. I afraid im not an expert on your problems but i do know when you switch the engine off and the fans go off that is normal. Well i hope so, because it does on my V6

Smelliot wrote:I also thought it wasn't boosting correctly as on the motorway at 70ish just below 3000rpm it struggles up hills a bit, I find i have to drop a gear and spool the turbo up

That does sound wrong, but if your turbo's working I'd suggest grabbing a replacement throttle position sensor

or just drive at speeds above 3000rpm and feel like I've got a drill hole in my petrol tank.

Welcome to the world of forced induction...

Also, what are your thoughts on the cracking/tapping from the top of the engine?

No idea.

Oh, and the heated seats don't work The buttons light up so the fuse and power is getting there, but the seats don't get warm. This is a good thing as I don't use them, but it would be nice to have everything on the car working.

Sadly a common fault. you can check power to the connection at the front of the seat (underneath) but if power's on the plug (needs the engine running) then it means you've got a dodgy heating element and the cheapest way of fixing it is a new seat off ebay

When the car is hot, 90to100deg-ish and I park it up the fans are on. I turn it off and the fans turn off too, they don't stay on after?

No, only after it clocks 100-105 in which case it'll panic and put both fans on full pelt as an emergency measure. Best to leave it idling (keeps the coolant flowing through the radiator) until the fans turn off. If you're really worried, give it a bleed. There's one bleed cap on the passenger side bulkhead and another on the thermostat housing just under the air pipe.

Also, if I come back to it after a few mins, whilst it is still hot, start it up and the revs just go mad, it bounces up and down and goes so low the whole car and exhaust rattles like crazy! I have to hold the revs with the throttle. It's never been good at balancing it's revs when it's first fired up and I got told thats because the dump valve isn't a recirculating valve, is that right or am I getting smoke blown at me?

1. Throttle position sensor
2. Idle control valve. Do a search on here to find my hunt for it. It's at the front by the radiator underneath the air intake pipe going to the throttle body. Give it a good blast with carb cleaner

Thanks for that guys, I am always paranoid about it over heating, especially in the summer. So, I guess only one fan is the norm and both when the car is struggling to keep cool? Thats another load off my mind, I thought only one of the fans worked because I have never seen the two in action together.

I saw your post for the ICV, I would just be worried that I'd break it, but it can't be that fragile if you can give it a good going over with carb cleaner. I'll give it a crack when the weather clears up a bit and if that doesn't work, I'll investigate the throttle position sensor, you never know, it might help with the speed issue. I've had a gander on fleabay, but there arn't any, just wondering how much they would be..... they seem to be about £10-15 for ther cars, would I be right in persuming it should be the same for the 406?

It's an arse about the seats, because for a high milage car, they look fantastic, they have been well looked after, no major cracks or owt, treated with auto gylm and everything. Sod it, I don't use the heaters, so they can stay broken.

Other then that, there are a few niggles but all in all, she's a good motor. Got a personal plate and it came with lexus rear light clusters, so it doesn't look that old. And after reading this forum, I'm glad I've got a D8 and not a D9. I've just started a new job, so when I get some money comming in, I'll start working on it and doing what needs to be done, aswell as tarting it up a bit Thanks guys

Smelliot wrote: I thought only one of the fans worked because I have never seen the two in action together.

Err, hello Huston, I think we have a problem...

If you have air con (why wouldn't you if you have 2 fans?) then the fans run at two speeds, at high speed they get individual feeds, at low they're run in series, so if one of your fans is u.s. neither work. There is a thread about it but I can't look for it now as I'm being hassled for my laptop because my other half wants to watch a film instead of the crap they show on telly here

Hmmm, just been outside in the rain to test it.
Even when the car is cold, with the air con on the fan kicks in for a short 2-5 second bursts every now and then, but it's only the passenger side one. I can't be arsed to wait out in the cold rain for it to heat up, but will look next time, prob tomorrow, for engine cooling, if it uses both fans. If memory serves me right, I've never seen the drivers side fan kick in, even when the car is hot. But, the one fan does cool the car when stationary and in traffic and whatnot.

I think the second fan only kicks in when it goes into panic mode if it really does overheat, goes into the red or whatnot?
I have had a look at the cooling system, where the pipe goes into the main block, it seems a bit crusty... is that where the thermostat is? Maybe I could do with a new thermostat and a overhaul on that gaskit and general area?

Smelliot wrote:Even when the car is cold, with the air con on the fan kicks in for a short 2-5 second bursts every now and then,

Perfectly normal - The way aircon/fridges/etc work is (very simply) they make one bit very hot and the cooling of the hot bit makes another bit very cold. Aircon needs to lose a fair amount of heat near the radiator regardless of the exterior temperature.

but it's only the passenger side one.

Minor problem. Either a relay or a fan is shot.

Don't worry about it too much - my tubby only had one working fan too but it managed to keep things cool without problem. After a drive the temperature would go up to about 1 o'clock on the dial (can't remember the actual temperature) then the fan would kick in, take it down to just before 12 o'clock, then shut off again. That would repeat all day long, and the car did some monsterous mileage without trouble, so don't worry. Just make sure your radiator is getting hot and it's properly bled, and there'll be no problem.

That is how mine is acting, goes up to 1oclock - 100deg, the fan kicks in and it drops to 12oclock - 90deg. It'll do that all day, and it does in the traffic at the end of the M67 from Chester to Sheffield. They really need to do a bypass to the snake pass.....or Sheffield.

The rad is nice and hot all over and I think it's all bleed and sorted. I have to top it up every now and again, I have a small pool of green fluid on the top of my gearbox and where the thermostat is (I think it's the thermostat) it's nice and crusty, so I think when it hits fan triggering temperature, a bit seeps out and pools on the top of my gearbox in the triangular mould. Thats another job for when I get some paycheques come in, a nice new thermostat, new coolent and engine flush.

and btw... are all D8's with discs on the rear have sh*t handbrakes, or do I need new shoes in the stupid little drum in the middle? Is it just me, or how can those tiny drums stop an almost two tonne car in an emergancy....let alone hold it on a hill?!

Smelliot wrote:Is it just me, or how can those tiny drums stop an almost two tonne car in an emergancy....let alone hold it on a hill?!

The inner drum bit is the handbrake, the disc is the foot brake they don't work 'together' as such.

BTW the kurb weight of my D9 is 1445Kg's yours should be less!!

Yeah, those tiny drums in the middle of the rear discs... not that effective.
I was going on the plate under the bonnet on mine, reads just over 1800Kg axel weight. Is this different to kurb weight then? It still feels like a ship compaired to my biscuit tin of a 309!

Peugeot Electronic boost control.... you just have to love it... I've posted about this so much that I'm not going to type it up again.... simply put:

The stock set up does not allow for much boost in 1st / 2nd gears 3rd isn't much better but 4th and 5th, that's where all the boost is... a max of 12.5 psi if I'm not mistaken!
So all you have to to is get a boost guage and set the boost to 12 p.s.i constant and that will be the same in every gear, and off you go !

Trust me when I say at 12 psi you will be happy for a while!

I've heard so many differnt stories about what pressure it should boost up to, I'm always confused. I've heard that max boost is 9p.s.i and it overboosts slightly in first to help it lift off to about 12ish. It feels like it does this, but then it could just be the gear ratio gives it more room to push.

It sounds pretty whimpy now, but I'm worried that putting/setting more boost into the engine will see my head gasket on the way out, and that wouldn't be what I'm aiming for (obvoiusly)

Also, how do you fit a boost gauge, do normal garages do it or is there someone in my area (Chester) who knows what they are doing with a spanner or two? And, setting the boost for a consistant 12p.s.i, would that involve messing with the wastegate actuator, or reprogramming the ecu?

Pretty newbie questions I know, but I know how to clean it really good

Max boost of the MP3.2 EMS is 0.9 bar not PSi the people that have told you it is 9psi know nothing lol

It is controlled electronically, to maintain traction in 1/2 gears the boost is set to 6 p.s.i max 3/4/5 it creeps up to 8-10psi 3rd and 10-12 psi 4/5. To set the boost you can either use a boost guage and bleed valve, boost guage and new actuator, or an electronic boost controller, the electronic is the best option, but expect to pay about £250 for something decent, like an Apexi AVC Type R.

Setting the boost to 10 / 12 p.s.i constant for all gears gives for a fun driving experience... much better than stock, traction isn't a problem unless its wet or you abuse it !

Visit your local motorworld / halfords and get yourself a boost guage, PSI not bar, and tap the hose into the recirc valve vaccum hose, this will give you your boost source. Mount the gauge in a pod or on the steering column etc..

HTH