Is my dealer taking the p-ss-PLEASE HELP!

[lakemaligne]

Hi all,I have owned a 1996 2ltr petrol LX from new with 137,000 miles on the clock and up to 3 months ago has always run perfect. and never let me down.The first symptoms started with a sudden jerk/jolt as I lifted the accelerator while driving followed by another sudden jerk,jolt as I depressed the accelerator.If i engaged neutral while the vehicle was still moving ,the engine would only drop to 1200 rpm,then settle at 950rpm once the car came to a halt.So my dealer changed the stepper motor and MAP sensor.When i got it back ,a week later the fault light came on along with the original fault symptoms.So they changed the oxygen sensor,and still the fault light and symtoms remained.So i asked them if they had re-set the Adaptives properly,which they hadnt.This cured the fault light but not the symptoms so they changed the Throttle Potentiometer.Now when I lift of the accellerator the car is still powering along for about 5 seconds then starts to slow down .If I go into neutral the revs climb to about 2000 rpm for 5 seconds then drop to 950rpm.If i change gear ,and put my foot down the engine "bogs" and hesitates almost like I have floored the throttle and it has flooded ,then the only way to get it to pull of is to lift of the throttle then gently put the power back on.When the car is stone cold and i start the car with out touching the accelerator the engine races up to 2000rpm ,then after about one minute it starts to drop,the warmer the engine gets.The fault light is also still coming on once every few days. I have checked to see if the throttle cable is frayed and its not.The dealer said the downloaded fault codes were "irregular fuel delivery".Does this sound what might be causing my trouble and if so what can be causing my car to behave this way.Some one please help as I am sure its just a simple thing ruining what is superb motor.

[steve_earwig]

I have a feeling there's been something similar before, so have a search or hold tight 'til someone with experience of this sort of problem comes along.

Meanwhile, when you say dealer do you mean Peugeot dealer? It sem like either their test equipment is no good, their engineers don't know how to use it or they just like playing games at our expence but it's not the place to take your car, do you have a Bosch or a Delphi nearby?

[Welly]

I thought you had to "set up" a new stepper motor - sounds like the idle speed control is out. As far as I'm concerned they haven't "fixed" your car and it's now (at the risk of sounding dramatic) dangerous!

I would get on to them and politely explain everything and that your unhappy with their repair and you want it putting right under the repair warrenty. In an ideal world a dealer should diagnose the fault, change the offending part, and if that doesn't work then they should not charge for that work. Only the proper fix should be charged for but unfortunately this is not an ideal world and if they/you consider your car "better" or "fixed" upon collection then you're a bit stuffed in a way.

Unfortunately the route cause of 99% of car faults is some silly very minor thing BUT finding it is a nightmare and dealers "technicians" have their mechanics nose removed and a diagnostic socket shoved in their hands instead

I would talk to them (the service manager not the reception) and just be honest - tell him how much you've spent ask him to have the car in again to set it all up properly (they have changed a lot of stuff) also discuss how you're unwilling to pay any more when the proper running of the car is down to them to sort after changing so many things in error.

Has the hesitation/judder been fixed?

[lakemaligne]

Hi Welton,my car was returned yesterday having had a new throttle cable fitted,even though i did not authorise this.All of the fault symptoms have now gone,except the fault light came on for 3 seconds this morning.I could not tell if the symptoms had gone immediately after they had replaced the TP because the over reving was masking every thing,but I believe that changing the TP finally fixed the fault and not by replacing the stepper motor,map sensor or oxygen sensor.I have spoken to an authorised Peugeot dealer this morning and got the service managers opinion on what has happened and he said that they would have gone straight for the TP in the first place and not touched the other 3 items.He guessed that the dealer who had been working on my car,which incidently used to be a family run concern when i bought the car from them back in 1996 who were very good then ,was now a franchise and that they had lots of cars come their way having first been messed around by this dealer.I dont understand what you mean by getting them to put it right under the repair warranty.I can see how the over reving could have been down to a frayed cable having been messed around with while changing the TP,but this was certainly not the cause of the original fault symptoms.The fact that the fault light came on again for only 3 seconds this morning,to me suggests that something is still not right ,(do you agree)considering that the light has only started coming on since they changed the SM and map sensor.The light was not on at all when the car first went in to be fixed ,in fact the light has never been on in all the 11 years of owning the car.

[Welly]

It's normal in my opinion for the engine light to stay on for a couple of seconds from start up, most of my cars have done this - it's when it stays on there's trouble

By "warrenty" I meant that when a garage does any new work to your car they have to give you 3 months/1000 miles on that work but thinking about it if there's nothing actually "faulty" about the new items you will struggle to argue this. The trouble seems to be they have thrown parts at the car attempting the fix to no avail.

I think they hadn't set the idle speed correctly last time making it over rev.

It's difficult in a way, and wrong, that garages can get away with these kind of ad-hoc repairs but there appears little we can do? maybe (as you said) it's down to which garage you use - one spot of trouble and you neer use them again

May I ask how much ££'s so far? I have a personal (just about swallowable) top line of about £350.00 where I would be prepared to write it off as a bad experience.

Nowadays (and with the help of clubs such as this) I do as much research and donkey work as possible before I approach a garage and get them to confirm my own "diagnosis" first. In fact it just helps if you can narrow the problem down a touch first.

See what some others say here too.........

[lakemaligne]

Hi Welton,I agree with you thats its normal for the engine light to stay lit for about 4 seconds after starting the car then go out,which is what my peugeot has done all its life.Having just had the TP replaced ,the very next day the light came on for about 3 seconds about 3 minutes into the journey .I actually managed to speak to the chief vehicle tech yesterday who has done all the work so far on my 406,and he admitted that my car was an inigma as he had run every test he could think of on my car,he was even getting a reading of "lamda1" on the emmissions which he said proves my car is running very well in deed,proving that all the injectors,fuel metering were all fine.He even agreed with me that the original fault was still there after he had replaced the SM,map sensor,and oxygen sensor proving to me that they were not the cause in the first place and should not have been changed .He also thought that the fault light now was due to an intermittent fuel delivery problem caused by such a high mileage which if was not causing any bad symptoms was best ignored.I believe that as the faults dissappeared after the TP and throttle cable were replaced proves to me that they were the cause.The over reving I experienced "may" have been caused by the cable becoming frayed when the TP was changed,or just down to like you say the idle speed was set wrong,its hard to say. I spoke to a service manager at another Peugeot dealer in my area yesterday,asking him what in his opinion he would have changed first had he been given my car to fix.He said the first thing he would have gone for was the TP,and not the SM ,map sensor or oxygen sensor.As I think i have received very poor service and been unfairly charged for unneccassry parts and the condascending and belittling manner in which the service manager spoke to me at the end ,even going so far as to saying he was not prepared to have my car back in his workshop again,even though the fault light was still coming on,has promted me to take out a formal complaint with Peugeot customer care department.So far I have paid out £442.00 for all parts and labour,which would have hurt, but would have willingly paid out for if the parts had genuinely been worn out and needed replacing.In my opinion and other people I have spoke to about this agree that it should have only cost me £55.00 +vat for a new TP.

[Welly]

Well it will be interesting to see what Peugeot say that's for sure.

[amron]

I had huge issues with Peugeot and found that the customer care at head office sided with the garage.
I checked all my rights through Trading Standards and the Consumer Action group website and drafted a letter explaining how disatisfied I was with their service and putting parts onto car which I had not authorised.The car was worse when it came out of the garage. I copied and pasted paragraphs from above sites and made an offer of paying the parts as full and final offer. I ended up paying £250 rather than their £500 bill. They told me it took 2 minutes to put the diagnostics onto car yet charged my £160 for doing it twice. The garage used to have a great reputation but no faith in them anymore.
Put as much info into your letter and for them to reply within 14 days and make sure you send it recorded delivery.

[Welly]

When I used my local Dealer I had oil, filter, flush, air, pollen, fuel filter, fuel conditioner and thermostat and I told them exactly what I wanted them to do and got it menu priced beforehand over the phone. I worked it out myself as £230.00 and that's what they billed me but obviously this was based on precise instructions.

I waited in service reception whilst they did it (2.5 hours ) and I overheard the service reception girls discussing their "targets" for that week some poor guy was getting his brakes "done" and that little job I could tell secured them their target (it was a Friday). I deduced that they are not just there to help and service your car, rather it's just a business making money.

Later, after I tightened the oil filler cap (which they left flapping about in the hole) and after I went back to get the fresh oil topped up to the proper level, gave them back a small lever bar they left on my battery and made them give me a new engine cover stud thing which they lost and tried to say it was never there in the first place, I was quite happy

[lakemaligne]

You were right,Peugeot Customer Care's initial response was to side with the dealer ,saying that the service manager had claimed all parts replaced were done on the results of the down loaded fault codes,and that he had only charged me for the parts and not the labour in each case.He also calimed that all parts were replaced as being diagnosed as faulty by the cars computer.Both his statements are untrue and by now Customer Care should have received copies of the invoices proving that I was charged labour and parts for the first three parts(which were not faulty),and that when the car first went in there was no fault light present ,and no fault code to diagnose ,and that they best guessed the fault.Because the service manager deliberately tried to mislead Customer Care ,they have agreed to look at my case again. What is worrying me now is the fact that even though all the symptoms have now gone and the car is running fine,the fault light is still appearing once every trip for about 10 seconds.According to the vehicle tech at the dealer in question , this code was coming up with " irregular fuel delivery" ,but could not figure out why! So my question to you all out there is ,should I be concerned about this fault light/code and if its accurate ,will it cause any damage,or as the vehicle is running fine ,can I ignore it.What do you think Trading Standards would say.

[steve_earwig]

It's not right is it? I think you need a second opinion from someone other than Pug, who's incompitence knows no bounds. Trundle it along to a Bosch or Delphi center, ok it's a few more quid but it looks like you'll be suing the dealer in any case so add this to the list. Who knows, after they hear your story you might even get a discount

[lakemaligne]

Steve, I am not familiar with these "Delphi" or "Bosch " centres,can you give me more info on what there speciality is ,and whether or not there are any in the midlands,near Coventry/Rugby/Leamington by any chance.

[steve_earwig]

I'm talking about approved service centers (rather than Joe Blob's dodgy backstreet garage). I can recommend you a great Bosch service, just ouside Samobor...

Try Carwood's of Coventry.

[teamster1975]

Supa! Hello stranger!

[steve_earwig]

Eeeek, s*d that, they told me I needed a new alternator for my old 405

So much for "approved" Recommendation's always better anyway.