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I'm going to change the oil on my '96 2.1td at the weekend. I'm thinking about using some engine flush such as Winn's Diesel Engine Flush.

Any opinions on this?

I'm nearing 140k on the clock- getting 42-4 mpg, running very well after recent timing belt change (£150 with genuine Pug belt Anyone in W. Yorks? I can recommend the garage!)

Cheers

Martin

any of the wynes products are really good the engine flush is very very good
only problem with using engine oil flush is the possibility of removing carbon deposits and creating oil leaks or oil burning but tbh i've never had it happen to me

just make sure you use a good diesel oil after the flush

Cheers

I was thinking of Wynn's anyway. Got some Mobil turbo diesel oil.

Bought the car a year ago from an old guy who'd owned it since new and had it serviced on the dot every time at the local pug dealer....must've spent a fortune. Even had a new set of Goodyear Eagle tyres on.

To date, I've only changed the rear lower arm suspension bushes as it was going a bit 'bow legged'. I also had a pre-emptive change of the rear disks and pads while I was at it(not genuine of course.)

I do about 400miles a week so I'm trying to be kind to the engine with nice oil and regular changes....unlike my old 405 which lasted about 100k and four years with one oil change(not bad for £400).

Mountain wrote:unlike my old 405 which lasted about 100k and four years with one oil change

Hey, we know someone like that here

The general opinion is if it's always been flushed then keep on flushing, if not then leave it be.

If it's been serviced by the main dealers then they usually flush every time; check the invoices or ring them up?

My HDi gets a Forte flush every time.

SAME HERE WELLY, ENGINE FLUSH ON MY HDI

Flush it is then. It seems she has been regularly flushed so I will carry on flushing.

Next job, handbrake shoes

What's up with them then?

I always fush and replace with a good fully synthetic oil.

Worked for 10 years on my old astra.

Should do the same on my Pug.

Hi
If you flush a turbo diesel you maybe reducing the life of the turbo and other moving parts unnecessarily - see my other comments on this subject - there is absolutely no reason to flush a diesel using modern oils - the oil is more than capable of suspending the contaminants which are then drained off at change. Diesel engines always deposit more contaminants in the oil hence the black colour even after a short run, however, the oils are more than capable of dealing with this and if you have any doubt think about the thousands of miles a truck will do between oil changes pulling many tonnes on a daily basis. But turbos are a special case in that they work under heavy duress in terms of heat, thus they are less tolerant of the use of flushing oil - even for just a few moments. It is myth from early days that some people continue with this practice of flushing. If you are ever engaged in the repair of diesel engines you would see how clean they are when dismantled. Flushing oils are nowhere near the quality of engine oil that's why it is cheap and you will do more harm to all the moving parts than you think by running the engine on it even for just a few minutes.

Does the same apply to non-turbo petrol engines Longy?

Hi
I have to say any engine petrol, diesel, naturally aspirated or turbo. The thing is a turbo will get the problem much earlier than other parts since it operates under very very hostile conditions - it literally floats on a film of oil which gets extremely hot very quick and though it may be not apparent immediately over prolonged service every time you do something to harm the engine it adds up and you get a shorter service life. With a non turbo this will usually affect the bores and rings
first and other hard metal surfaces - the crank has soft metal bearings that have a good flow of oil so are affected less. Good synthetic oils are remarkable in countering friction losses especially where the contact speed is low - a piston stops twice on each revolution and this is where most of the wear results since it is the slowest part of the cycle. It figures that if you just run the engine at say idle each piston stops 900 x 2 =1800 times per minute you can work the rest out depending how long you do the flush with a duff oil. I read some on here actually take the car on a good thrash with flush oil in - oooooorrrr.
Qualified engineers should know better, if they do this in dealerships I would question their competence. Incidentally make sure you use a TURBO diesel oil since it is specially formulated for a turbo - read the can. This is not a myth it is a fact and no opinion can change a fact. Oh and by the way to those with turbos there is a small filter fitted in the oil feed pipe to the turbo and should be cleaned every oil change without fail since if it gets blocked bang goes your turbo.

Longintooth wrote:if they do this in dealerships I would question their competence

But they do! I've got every single printed invoice for the life of my car (9 years) and it's been flushed everytime whether it was a main dealer or later at an independant

I suppose if you ran fully synthetic the whole time then you wouldn't need to flush but these things usualy get semi synthetic and are driven fast, slow, hot, cold etc so maybe a case for a flush to disolve? any waxy build up each time

Longintooth wrote:Incidentally make sure you use a TURBO diesel oil since it is specially formulated for a turbo - read the can. This is not a myth it is a fact and no opinion can change a fact.

How is it a fact?

Manucaturers can get away with so much bullshit in their marketing. See this $500 ethernet cable for instance:

http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3429.asp

"the AK-DL1 will bring out all the nuances in digital audio reproduction " - bollocks will it. It's like saying a bookshelf can improve the stories of the books it holds

"The AK-DL1 employs high level tin-bearing alloy shielding not typically available in commercial cabling, to eliminate data loss caused by noise". I've dealt with cat5/5e/6 cables every day for the last 10 years or so and I've NEVER seen even a single bit (as in 1/8 of a byte) of data loss from a correctly made undamaged cable costing a few pence a throw in normal use.

The only time I have seen loss is when I ran 10gigE over a 50m spool of cat5e (not even cat6/6a) and revved an electric drill next to it (just to see if I could actually cause loss). Even then you wouldn't notice it for digital audio signals over TCP/IP as the interference was sufficiently low to mean a retransmit would be extremely unlikely to be affected too


How does this translate into oil? Never believe what it says on the can unless it's backed up by proof.

It's not a fact unless it's proven.

Hi
I meant the fact is that there is no need to flush and the reason why is fact. Over the last 35 years I have been in transport I have witnessed the changes in oil quality and the improvements that have been achieved (proof). A qualified engineer would know by looking at a filler cap or the rocker cover if inferior oil was being used and only then might he feel a flush would be beneficial, but the damage has already been done so it would make little difference in this scenario. If contamination was being deposited on the surfaces no flushing oil will remove it - it will need scrubbing off - fact. If the oil is drained off when warm 99% of contaminants are drained with it leaving a film of high quality oil on the surfaces - fact. Flushing oil is low grade lubrication oil and will not dissolve wax etc - fact. Turbos run in extreme conditions of heat and at speeds of 170,000rpm - fact. To answer welly - even standard high quality oil has properties to suspend contaminants i.e. non synthetic so that would never be a case for flushing. I doubt that you will find the real rubbish on any shelves today anyhow, only flushing oil - but who knows.

It's interesting that mjb compares CAT 5,6 cable etc. We installed cat 5 in a network with an interface connection to allow control of lighting modules - spikes in the mains system were found to affect the control system and was switching lights on. Changing to CAT 6 stopped that problem and so it goes on in every industry
where solutions are being developed all the time. We have just installed other equipment and now even CAT6 was not up to it so we had to install photo coupler chips in the circuit to make a break in line continuity, so sensitive is the signal to noise. However, it is not my level of expertise but my son is an Electronics Engineer who would know the facts. Why is this relevant to oil? it demonstrates the way solutions are continually evolving. See this on the link below -

Adding STP Engine Flush directly to the used motor oil prior to draining helps neutralise engine acids while it works to loosen and remove sludge, varnish and gum deposits that ordinary draining leaves behind. STP Engline Flush contains an anti-wear additive to help protect engine surfaces during cleaning.

All engine oils have this property so it is a waste of money and just ask them if you can run the engine on it permanently - mmmmmmmmmmm. At least they suggest you put it in the old oil prior to draining - good idea better than using flushing oil, but what's the point.

Hi
With respect to MJB, the cable refered to may well not have an all round detectable loss value but the way electronics are progressing even tiny amounts of noise reduction is pushing the boundaries where, in certain operating conditions as in medicine, the sensitivity is crucial so they rise to the challenge. It is true that claims can be trumped up and when it materialises to nothing it will be thrown out. Audio has changed just a little since the days of a vynal record or even telephone wires. On the subject of oil the industry is awash with additive claims - molybdenum disulphide was one which came about because of the low grade oils of the past, but now play a less roll since the oils have improved in the base state. Wynn's also developed on this track. However, there are internationally recognised oil qualities set by authorities and given a grade (API) so that people in, say Aviation can be assured that it is up to the job, that's where reading the label on the can is important and where manufacturers mandate what's used in their product - not sales hype. So it goes on, you will get what you pay for. Of course you can ignore this advice and carry on doing what makes you happy but is it not the aim of this site to at least see what's out there and make a choice? Or perhaps we should not bother to comment and let bliss continue. Read the label.