2.1td lucas to bosch pump swap?

[mark21TD]

I do have a working Lucas that came off the car and this will be going on Ebay soon (this has no leaks and runs fine).

I've edited the my first reply to you so you may wont to read it again.

[wlb]

Thanks Mark.

[jbh325i]

so what problems can the lucas pump have? im new to all this so please be gentle?

[mark21TD]

The Lucas epic pumps are semi electronic and are very complicated, somewhere between the old mechanical pumps and the modern HDI system.
They are known to be one of the weekest pumps around, Diesel bob only gives them a two star rating out of five.
They cost around £800 to get reconditioned and over £1000 new.

[wlb]

What's the difference between the 405 1.9TD and the 406 1.9TD? Are they both the XUD9TE engine?
Is the 406 1.9 Bosch pump fully mechanical too, or is it ECU controlled?

What's the model numer of this pump? Is it fully mechanical? If so, why all the electrical connections?

[mark21TD]

Right, the 406 pump is partly electronic in that the senser on top (next to the mushroom thing) controles the EGR valve via the EUC, other than that they are almost the same, both pumps can be used on the 2.1 convertion.
Oh and the 406 and some of the 405 pumps will have the immobaliser thing on it and will have to be removed (it's behind the heavy stealwork on the rear of the pump), untill you do this you can't get to the stop solinide.

[tenwierdufos]

i will in the next week be trying to fit a bosch pump from a 1.9td to my 2.1td due to my lucas epic pump going completely tits up, i shall let you know how it goes


and if youve allready done this, whats the results?

[mark21TD]

Mine is running well, it still needs some fettling but nothing but a few adjustments.

Don't forget to read through the hole of this thread to see what other bits you will need.

I'll point you in the right direction when ever I can.

[wlb]

What's the difference between the 405 1.9TD and the 406 1.9TD? Are they both the XUD9TE engine?
Is the 406 1.9 Bosch pump fully mechanical too, or is it ECU controlled?

What's the model numer of this pump? Is it fully mechanical? If so, why all the electrical connections?

Can anyone help with this please? (See photos in my earlier post).
I have the opportunity to get one of these, but I'm not sure what it is and there's no point getting the wrong parts.

Cheers,
Warwick.

[tenwierdufos]

What's the difference between the 405 1.9TD and the 406 1.9TD? Are they both the XUD9TE engine?
Is the 406 1.9 Bosch pump fully mechanical too, or is it ECU controlled?

What's the model numer of this pump? Is it fully mechanical? If so, why all the electrical connections?

Can anyone help with this please? (See photos in my earlier post).
I have the opportunity to get one of these, but I'm not sure what it is and there's no point getting the wrong parts.

Cheers,
Warwick.

I have recently done this conversion myself with a fuel pump from a 1.9td 1994 citroen xantia, which works great, i belive its the same pump as on the 405 1.9td...


the 406 one will have a sensor on top of the throttle lever so that it can controll the egr valve on the 406, this pump is also fully mechanical like the 405 / older xantia pump, but i think that it in some way coded into the ecu / alarm for the immobiliser keypad, so i dont know how you would go about wiring this up...


the older pumps just have a stop solonoid and all it requires is a 12v current to it to start the car, then when its cut, the car stops.


if you can get your hands on a bosch pump from a 405 or an older xantia (not sure how early you have to go but my 1996 one i had before had the keypad immobiliser so might not be usefull)

then that would make your life much easier

[mark21TD]

Both pumps will work, but any Peugoet/citron XUD 1.9td (not DW8) will do the job.
Any pump from an immobiliser equiped car will have to have the little black box removed, this is at the back of the pump, under the thick steal plate work, you will have to get quite brutal (read angle grinder, drill, big efing hammer) to remove it but once done the stop solonoid is underneath it, the problem with this is you can get small pices of metel going inside the pump if not very cearfull and this will destroy it very quickly.
for all the agro I'd find one without the immobiliser, don't forget you will need the injectors (you must use Bosch injectors with a Bosch pump) and pipes as well.

[tenwierdufos]

don't forget you will need the injectors (you must use Bosch injectors with a Bosch pump) and pipes as well.

really? im using the original lucas epic injectors on mine and running fine XD


have had to use bosch injector pipes on injector 1, 2 and 4 but needed to bend one of the original ones a bit to go on number 3 because of the coolent pipe that seems to go between 2 and 3.

without them i wouldnt have a rev counter at all as injector 1 has the needle lift sensor.

[mark21TD]

without them i wouldnt have a rev counter at all as injector 1 has the needle lift sensor.

I'm using 405 injectors without any needle lift sensors and my rev counter works the same as yours.

Bosch pumps are set to work with 175bar injectors, the Lucas ones are 140bar so the timing will be to far advanced,
you can retard the timing to compansate but this will not be corect for the hole rev range.

[wlb]

Thanks for all the help.
The 406 STDT didn't have an immobilizer keypad in Australia, although I think that it does detect the correct igntion key.
So it could well be that the pump I have pictured above will work.
You see the problem is that 405 pumps are now scarce in Australia and the Xantia pump probably even scarcer. This means that anything I use will almost certainly need to be sourced from the UK.
Does anyone know what the Bosch model number is for the pump in the photo? Without knowing that it's hard to discuss conversion with diesel workshops down here.

Edit ...
I think I've found my answer. This pump is the AS3 VP20, isn't it?
That means it's not going to be much help to me at all as it still needs an ECU, albeit a more reliable Bosch one.

So it's back to my search for a 405 or Xantia VE pump and injectors.

[captaindugong]

Hi
Maybe you are sorted by now in Australia....
I had my 406 STDT wagon converted by Morassi and Wiliams in Williamstown, Victoria.
Easily found with google.
$1600 cash including a pump rebuild (I supplied the pump)
Lucas injectors
5% loss of power
Similar economy (i run it on biodiesel)
Tacho works up to 3000 rpm then drops to 0 till next start
ECU light on constantly
Plenty of pumps on Ebay UK. Mount. sprocket, pipes about 80 pounds.
Hope that helps all downunder!
Carl