Just about dip my toe into 406 diesel world

[tompiper]

Hi Guys, and thanks for all your input into what looks like a very informative forum.

I've just started to look for my first 406 diesel estate, and to be honest it seems a bit of a minefield. I know they have bomb proof engines so I'm going to give a mid to high mileage one a whirl (150k ish). I have a budget of about £1000 so any tips would be much appreciated.

I've already found out from here that the 90hp engine is a bit more reliable, but does that mean I should ignore the 110hp or is the difference only marginal, or even a matter of opinion.

Also any advice on the difference between TD and HDi would be appreciated, is one 90hp and the other 110hp or is it more complicated? and what about the 2.1 litre engine???

I'm going to be using it as a tow car for my 1200kg caravan, so if anybody has a similar setup please let me know how a car that's done about 160k gets on with the task.

Many thanks

TP

[grasmere59]

I can't vouch for the non HDI engine versions but I've heard that if your going down that route the 2.1td is the one to go for,i have a 2.0hdi 110bhp that has been remapped to a claimed 140bhp and I tow a 1300-1400kg caravan with it without too much trouble although I have put spring assisters on the rear to stiffen it a bit,it returns approx 30-35 mpg on a long motorway run towing,i think the 2.2hdi is a preference to many on the forum and was caravan club towcar of the year back in it's day.My preference as an alrounder is the post 2001 hdi110 as it's cheap on road tax and if driven carefully can get nearly 50mpg,mine has just topped 125k miles and I have been very pleased with it in the 18k miles I've done in the last 17 months.

[GingerMagic]

Hi chap, I think the 90 will struggle pulling the caravan, I used to tow scrap cars to the scrapyard with my 90 and was okay until you met a hill, or a slope, even the flat roads actually.
On its own it is more than adequate, but the 110 is the best all-rounder for performance with economy, the 2.2hdi is a flyer and would pull the caravan with ease, but only gets around 40mpg round town if careful.

If you find a 406 diesel estate with 150k on the clock, many here would say thats low mileage..

Just for the record, 2.1 diesel ( pre 1998 I think) is a reliable, strong and uncomplicated engine but not many left. The Hdi engine took over in 1998 I think, a clever and frugal engine but more to potentially go wrong. So early 406s have 1.9 or 2.1 diesel, the later phase 2 have either 90, 110 or 136 Hdi diesel.

I have the same 1.9 engine in my 306 ( 1997 ) and have had it for nearly 12 years and it is bullet proof, but less refined than my 406 Hdi.

[jonsowman]

I'm a fan of the 2.1 engine, very reliable (mine's on 225k nearly) and reasonably quick, more so than the 1.9 anyway. Won't run on veg oil (as standard) though, so go for the 1.9 if that's your plan.

[rwb]

There are 5 diesel engines:
1.9 TD (90 hp)
2.1 TD (110 hp)
2.0 HDi in 90 (without intercooler) and 110 (with intercooler) variations, and
2.2 HDi
and they're all dead easy to recognise by sight.

The 1.9 and 2.1 are the older (indirect injection) engines, and the 1.9 is the one that runs on veg oil. The 2.1 is impressive, but as an older engine it's a bit thirsty and noisy. There's nothing like the sound of a 1.9 clattering into life on a cold morning

The HDi engines are direct injected, and are normally found in the face-lifted models that have the honeycomb grille and clear lights. The HDi 90 is slow and you should definitely not try to pull a caravan with it!

The 2.2 HDi is highly sought-after, and you'll be lucky to find one under £1k -- but well worth trying! Easy remap to 180, and the dpf is easily removed.

Which leaves the 110.

So, it's looking like a 110 or a 2.1. I think I'd be happy with either. So then it's down to what's available, what toys you're interested in,...

Otherwise:
* on the facelifted models the leather interior is very nice indeed
* the multi-functional display on cars that have sat-nav has two trip computers instead of one, if you're into that kind of thing.

[Busman]

Having owned 2 110 HDIs and a 1.9 D8, I wouldn't say they ever put a bad diesel in these, just different degrees of good. I wouldn't worry about the 90 being more reliable than a 110. All the parts I've replaced on my 2 HDI 110s have been common to both power variants. As has been said, I would say the 110 is a very good compromise between power and economy. Really with the age of these it's all about how it's been looked after.
On mileage, my first one, HDI 110, has now done over 300k and is still going strong, although we have given up on the air con.

[Doggy]

Having covered over 100k in the two 2.2's I've owned, I find them really difficult to fault comapred to any of the alternatives.
Saying that, recently I have been pleasantly surprised by a couple of 110's -
1. puggy's remapped beasty is pretty nimble and surprisingly refined
2. my bro has just swapped his trusty veg burning 1.9 for an X reg 110 executive estate with 130k from a dealer for under £1k

You maybe need to try a few, as not all are as smooth, quiet and pull as well as these two, but there are nice examples out there at reasonable cost.

Mileage isn't a big issue either. I changed my first 2.2 for a lower mileage example at 185k+, not because it was 'tired', but to extend my period of 406 ownership as long as possible. Frankly, there are no newer alternatives that tick all my boxes almost regardless of price.

[Welly]

If you're towing I'd say the 110, if you're an enthusiast and don't mind some tinkering then I'd say the 2.2 (136).

The 2.2 will almost certainly need some attention to the emissions control system (Particulate Filter and special fluid additive) however this can be a way to bag yourself a bargain as apart from this they are very reliable just like the other types. Find a 2.2 with an emissions fault and it can be sorted very easily and cheaply (i.e. just your time really) there's people on here willing to help with how to's and new software etc but you will need to be fairly confident in tinkering with stuff, having said that it's no problem really.

Not sure on the 2.2 but the 110 HDi is known for slipping clutches as it gets older, this will ruin your towing, trouble is it's very difficult to detect when buying. On a test drive you really need a good hour of mixed driving to get the transmission hot (might be best to offer to pay for the fuel if you like the car otherwise); this is when the clutch is more likely to 'let go'. Driving in 4th or 5th gear at around 1500 rpm you need to squeeze the throttle to get full turbo boost at around 1800 rpm THIS is when it will want to slip and you will notice the revs blip with no increase in road speed. I wouldn't say to walk away at this point if the car is generally good but it's worth bearing in mind as a bargaining tool.

Something else to bear in mind is the rear lower engine mount, especially with towing, these almost always fail and it will certainly benefit from a new one if it hasn't been done (approx £150.00 with labour). Crankshaft pulley's used to fail although most would have been changed by now for the 'improved' version. In-tank fuel pumps fail at around 120K miles so again most would have been done already.

The HDi is not known to snap cambelts but these should be replaced at 92K miles or 5 yearly.

Don't let these things put you of, the 406 is a very capable motor and very comfortable and economical.

One thing that might be worth considering is a late (53 plate-ish) 90bhp SE model and have it remapped to about 115/120bhp at a PROPER tuning house (£300.00-ish) the 90 is less known for clutch trouble (no DMF) and is generally more simple due to fewer parts, having said that I don't know of anyone on this forum with a tuned 90 to report

[mjb]

Welly's absolutely right.

Something else to bear in mind is the rear lower engine mount, especially with towing, these almost always fail and it will certainly benefit from a new one if it hasn't been done (approx £150.00 with labour)

It's a £20-£40 part, but a fair bit of work to change. Perfectly DIY-able if you've got a weekend afternoon, a wide opening vice, common tools and the ability to remove a wheel hub nut

If the engine mounts go, you can expect the exhaust flexi-joint+cat to die.

Crankshaft pulley's used to fail although most would have been changed by now for the 'improved' version.

In my experience, it should be one of the first things to change when buying a 406 nowadays, given the age of them. All the cars I've dealt with (six 406s (!!!!), a 307 and a golf) have had the factory-fitted pulleys on. Pulley failure has the potential to take out the engine! I'd also recommend a new top engine mount too (easy DIY job)

All the above (and belts) are silly bits of rubber, which perish with age. Feels like nearly every bit of mechanical car work I've done of late has revolved around replacing perished rubber bits. I think when looking to buy a 10 year old car - of any make - you should probably make sure you've got some money to spend on replacing rubber bits, less for DIY or more if you want to get someone else to do the work (stick to independents!!!)


OT: The bimmer could do with new engine mounts too... grr... although I do kind of like the sideways wobble you get when you stamp on the throttle when stationary but it can add instability when driving hard

[Welly]

All the above (and belts) are silly bits of rubber, which perish with age. Feels like nearly every bit of mechanical car work I've done of late has revolved around replacing perished rubber bits. I think when looking to buy a 10 year old car - of any make - you should probably make sure you've got some money to spend on replacing rubber bits, less for DIY or more if you want to get someone else to do the work (stick to independents!!!)

Spot on mate and something I'm keen on too, knackered rubber inserts/bushings completely ruin a car. You really should change every single bush and mounting point on the chassis and have the whole car properly aligned but if you're in the market for buying older motors you aren't likely to be able to do these things easily due to cost

What ever happened to rubber components anyway? I'm certain cars in the 80's/90's didn't suffer perished rubber, they just rusted away instead

[D9406]

[quote="Welly
One thing that might be worth considering is a late (53 plate-ish) 90bhp SE model and have it remapped to about 115/120bhp at a PROPER tuning house (£300.00-ish) the 90 is less known for clutch trouble (no DMF) and is generally more simple due to fewer parts, having said that I don't know of anyone on this forum with a tuned 90 to report [/quote]
My lads got an 03 90 hdi estate tuned by Hdi Tuning at Bristol, £120 IIRC, and it absolutely flies. No reliability issues, just oil and filter changes @6000m.
Pulls better than my 110, spins wheels in 2nd. Great fun from lights and no smoke.

[mjb]

What ever happened to rubber components anyway? I'm certain cars in the 80's/90's didn't suffer perished rubber, they just rusted away instead

rusted and died before the rubber bits had a chance to perish

[tompiper]

Thanks to all for your very helpful replies.
I may well PM a couple of you for follow up if you don't mind.

[hammerman]

My lads got an 03 90 hdi estate tuned by Hdi Tuning at Bristol, £120 IIRC, and it absolutely flies. No reliability issues, just oil and filter changes @6000m.
Pulls better than my 110, spins wheels in 2nd. Great fun from lights and no smoke.

Sounds a bit like mine 140 ish bhp,220 lbft torque.Mine is a late 2003 53 110 SE.182K miles,original dmf & clutch,fuel pumps,injectors and crank shaft pully(changing next week along with cam belt etc)and Vartra battery.And it still tows our 1300kgs caravan like it wasn't on the back.Its starting to cost some money but only cause things are wearing out after nearly 10 yrs.Replaced most of the suspension & bushes now,both rear wheel bearings & front cv joints,but only because the abs rings were damaged or split.2 abs sensors,3 engine sensors,and now proberly some rear brake calipers.
Getting back to the post,i had a Xantia estate before this with the 90 bhp 1.9td engine.Great engine,but didn't pull our caravan well,even though it had been tuned to 110 bhp.It ran hot a lot.My dad had a X reg 90 hdi before getting his 110(my car now)which towed his 1300 kgs caravan fine.Although when he got the 110 bhp hdi he said it towed so much better than the 90.
Maybe I`ve been lucky with my car,but touch wood its still going strong engine wise afrer 10 yrs.Although I do need a new maf sensor.