Dale Farm eviction.

[steve_earwig]

One of the ex-Gipsies I used to work with actually got quite annoyed that people called travellers Gipsies - he said something along the lines of they ain't Gipsies, they're just scum.

I'm afraid my experience of travellers is the same as most people's - "do you want your drive tarmacked?", caravans appearing overnight, then disappearing a few days later leaving an incredible amount of rubbish behind (including a burned-out caravan once, although, thinking about it, I wonder who did burn it out). I'm not exactly sure if they're the same people but when I lived in Hertfordshire we used to get the fair on the common across the road once a year and when they left we'd find all sorts of things just dumped all over the place, including what looked like a couple of hundred gallons of used engine oil just poured everywhere behind our houses.

I get your point though, as far as I know these Dale Farm bods seem to be only guilty of using land for something they don't have planning permission for (woop-de-do), I've not been following it closely but I don't think they represent a crime wave, so perhaps all the rest is just because of everyone's (including myself) perception of "travellers".

They're are Gipsies here (real ones): they live in houses; they beg; they collect scrap metal, old clothes, whatever; they don't steal (that I've heard of); they refuse any form of employment on religious grounds; the girls generally leave school at around the age of 14 because they're pregnant. And, despite all that, the ones I've met (and managed to communicate with) are nice.

[lozz]

Am iright or wrong here,

wasnt it during the war, The Britsh went to ireland and took there crops, (potatoes ) etc,
and they starved, Many of them fled,


is thats so, why carnt they live off our land if our Ancestors have lived off theres,?

im no good at History but irember someone talking about this, potato thing, maybe ive got it wrong,

also on the word Traveller, we all are arnt we ? (Do we all go on Holiday,?)

many of them live on camps sites, or owned land but they visit other camps etc family in other places, so they have holidays too, (travel,) the ones that camp and wreck the place and move on after aweek are the ones that are the Bad Apples, not the Settlers,

ive never met better people than the irish, they are pleasant caring and have a good sense of humour and they look after one another, dont sighn on and make enough to put bread on the table,

[lozz]

[quote="steve_earwig"]One of the ex-Gipsies I used to work with actually got quite annoyed that people called travellers Gipsies - he said something along the lines of they ain't Gipsies, they're just scum.


He most probs an out-cast, Gypsies have there own law,
if someone goes against it they dis-own them, most probs hes calling them scum as he as gone against them,

[steve_earwig]

I can't find anything about stealing crops during the war (it wouldn't be so much of a surprise) but I think you might mean the potato famine, which was almost 100 years earlier.

[lozz]

I can't find anything about stealing crops during the war (it wouldn't be so much of a surprise) but I think you might mean the potato famine, which was almost 100 years earlier.

yup your correct mate,.



The Famine, 1845-1852, had far-reaching consequences which would not only shape Irish History, but would end with over one million of the population dead and would influence the country's foreign relations for many years to come. Known as 'Black 47' and 'An Gorta Mór', the instigator of widespread starvation, disease, death and mass emigration was the failure of the potato crop in 1845; the instigator but not the sole cause. This article will examine the history of Ireland which led up to the Famine, the political climate at the time and the reasons why one crop - the simple potato - brought the country to its knees.


Historically, it could be persuasively argued that Ireland's problems began many years before the onset of the Famine; specifically, the invasion by the English at the end of the twelfth century. The invaders, led by King Henry II succeeded in claiming the eastern and southeastern coasts for England, possibly assisted by infighting among the Irish leaders themselves. Henry divided the land into ten regions, giving each region to ten of his principal followers. This meant that each part of the land now had two owners - the rightful, native owner and the English invader.


The English believed that the Irish were barbarians and as such they concurred that these 'wild men' had no right to the land. Laws were quickly drawn up in an overt attempt to bring the Irish natives 'into line' - subjugation was the early ploy by the English.


It was not however until Queen Elizabeth I's reign that Ireland was fully under British Rule. It was also at this time that British statesmen actively believed that the best way to bring the Irish natives into line would be through widespread starvation. Thus, the British were thinking that Famine would be an ideal way to tame the 'barbarian Irish' two centuries before their will became fact. During Elizabeth's reign they did more, however, than simply 'think about starving the Irish'; the military systematically went through the farmlands all over Ireland, destroying crops that had already been planted, preventing land cultivation and killing the old, native Irish landowners one by one.


Elizabeth's plan to colonize Ulster with English people fell to her successor - James I, who gave 'gifts' of Irish land to his ardent Scottish supporters. Historically, though, it was not until the reign of William III (famous for the Battle of the Boyne) that the English declared Ireland to be 'fully conquered'.


The agricultural system just before the outbreak of the Famine also had a major impact in what would happen. The land was now owned by British landlords (many absentee) who rented out plots to the native farmers. Most of the land was employed to produce crops for export, while the farmers, in order to provide food for their families, used tiny plots. The potato was the crop of choice because it could be grown in poor soil and because it produced a large yield even in a small area. The result was such that the native people of Ireland were, by 1845, dependent - for their food and to enable them to pay the rent for their living quarters - on the reliability of the potato crop.


There were, however, problems brewing on the horizon - a disease called 'blight' (caused by the fungus 'Phytophthora infestans') had already wiped out the potato crops in America (1843) and all across continental Europe (1845). It was only a matter of time before it reached Ireland, the spores of the fungus carried by the wind, rain and insects from England and mainland Europe. While the US and Europe had other foods on which to rely, the native population of Ireland was not so lucky.


By the summer of 1845, the first signs of the blight were apparent (brown patches and white mould on the leaves and in the tubers), and by autumn the entire crop across Ireland had failed. The Irish found that they could no longer pay the rent to their landlords and over the coming years many were evicted from their properties. A widespread crisis was imminent.


Six months after the failure of the potato crop people were beginning to starve. Meanwhile, in England, the Liberals were suggesting that the Famine was a sign from God - they saw it as an opportunity for the Irish to 'better themselves', that it was a 'lesson', that Ireland was a country with huge economic potential (plentiful fish, good land and terrific harbors) and that with the 'right instruction' (from the British government of course), Ireland could 'get itself out of this disaster'. The object now was to bring Ireland totally under English law.

[sirwiggum]

I'm biting my tongue at some of the sweeping generalisations on a whole nation/island

[steve_earwig]

That is from Wiki and I think it's still editabubble by all.

What's that quote? Ah yes
[quote="Cecil "Rampant Xenophobia" Rhodes"]To be born English is to win first prize in the lottery of life.[/quote]
Excuse me while I go burn my passport.

[lozz]

That is from Wiki and I think it's still editabubble by all.

What's that quote? Ah yes
[quote="Cecil "Rampant Xenophobia" Rhodes"]To be born English is to win first prize in the lottery of life.

Excuse me while I go burn my passport.[/quote]


like winning the lottery nah,

id of prefared to be born elsewhere, away from this shower of shite

[steve_earwig]

Believe it or not but someone once quoted that to me in all seriousness after I'd said that from everywhere else in the world England looks like a complete shower of shite, with politicians that obviously didn't have a clue what they were doing and that there was a regular spot on the back page of one of the papers here - what have those daft Englishmen been up to now? I was also told I'd "gone native"

[lozz]

its true mate, britain is a Shower of shite,

its not the people its the Goverment, and its the Goverment whats been fecking things up for years,
people want to have there say but its like a One man Army,

back to to ireland topic, What was that Bloody Sunday thing all about in 1972 ?
wasnt it britain & the scotts that caused that too,?

Oh yeah and the way ilook at it is the Gover-ment dont like the gypsies because they carnt tax the feck out of them,
if they paid tax theyd be there bestest buddies,

the only handouts ican see they get from them is taxi fares for the children to enable them to go to school, not alot of help is it realy, when they carnt settle as they get Bullied and spat on because theyre differnt

[FarmerPug]

It was a civil rights march in derry/londonderry and they were shot at by the army.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_(1972)

[steve_earwig]

A total f*ck up from start to finish, I was told that it was a bunch of squaddies confronted by a huge angry mob, lost their nerve and fired into the crowd but I'm not someone that believes anything I hear particularly if it comes from HM government.

They drove an APC into the crowd? Ffs! Anyway, if there was any actual truth to the above they could have gone hide in it. Reading on it seems like any justification there was rapidly disappeared in a cloud of whitewash.

Good song by SLF though.

[lozz]

Never heard of SLf

altho this was popular, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunday_Bloody_Sunday

lenon had abash at it too,

http://www.lyricsmode.com/lyrics/j/john ... unday.html

[steve_earwig]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stiff_Little_Fingers

I never was keen on U2

[lozz]

iwasnt keen on U2 myself,
but all there Material made sense, they sort of sang about what theyd seen or beleived in,
not like the Bull sh*t many artists blurt out, Bling & Money,