Couldn't keep up with a 407's handling

[jameslxdt]

nope, 406 only ever had fully independant multi-link rear suspension, very advanced for its time

[muffindell]

I guess the following quotes from the motoring press don't count then!

'The car turns-in very quickly and crisply. In fact, initially you find yourself turning the wheel too much, the car responds in a split-second and you're into the corner more sharply than you want to be. A small amount of passive rear-wheel steering is built into the rear suspension geometry, helping the turn-in to corners'.

....and

'On a winding country road, the car remains flat and firmly stuck to the road even when pushed hard through corners. The car tracks perfectly, keeping its rear end tucked in nicely thenaks to the passive rear-wheel steering. It is easy to steer, with a good resistance to shocks from potholes that may otherwise twist the wheel around in your hands'.

There are many more references to the 406 rear passive steering available on the web.

[Eric]

My 2 pence worth on the handling of my 406...

I've always felt that the true measure of a cars handling is not how high the grip levels are, but what the car does once those levels have been breached. This is where the 406 excels, especially considering it's a 3 box saloon with a big bum! Very very steerable with the throttle, progressive drifting, you can use a rally style technique during corners where you deliberately use too much steering to snap the back end out and then gently use the throttle and steering to 4 wheel drift past the apex before nailing the throttle and letting the nose run gently wide to the outer edge. However I have found it to be faster point to point to do all the braking in a straight line, turn in smoothly, allow the car to drift on a neutral throttle to the apex and then progressively feed in the power while feeling for the steering wheel going light indicating understeer. Not as showy, but definitely faster.

Cars with higher ultimate grip tend to be a bit twitchy once they've breached their limits, so let the 6 slip and slide you'll love it!

Note: I take no responsibility for anyones dry cleaning bills of they follow the above advice.

You have just summed up the difference between grip and handling!

Does the 406 grip?
Erm... No not really.
Does it handle well?
Erm... With all that weight and soft suspension... Not really.

Seriously before people talk about how well a 406 handles take a 205 Gti out for a spin, or a Williams Clio, or a Gti-6 or a Clio 172.

Small, agile, lightweight with less body roll, more grip and control on the much higher limit.

The 406 in comparison gets very out of shape when thrown about but then it's not designed to be hurled about like a hooligan - it likes it smooth and relaxed.
tbh the 406 handling has been surpassed by a lot of cars that are still fairly large but more modern as well.
The question is do those other cars such a limo-like ride when cruising... I suspect not.

You can't have both agile, responsive cat like reflexes and soft comfortable bump removing suspension.
Simple physics really.

[Eric]

Just to add, the 406 isn't all bad.
It does offer a lot of steering feedback for a car that has so much steering assistance which is always very good

[muffindell]

I was lucky enough to have 205 1.9GTi from new. To be honest I never rated the handling very much. Above 95mph it became unsure in a corner (like you didn't know if you were going to make it), the steering didn't load up much(unlike my lowered Ford XR2 that I had from new beforehand, 110mph into any corner you choose and would always come out the other end without drama, and with a big smile on your face and scaring the sh!t out of the oncoming traffic!). However, after touring Ireland for a fortnight in the GTi I concluded it was definately a GT and a wonderfully rounded car, but not a 'B' road racer. Some days I would travel 600+ miles and come out the other end fresh as a daisy. The acceleration was fab (0-60 in 7.2secs), the brakes were brilliant. All in a very nice car. Skip Brown Cars 'could' make changes to the suspension to make it a 'B' road racer, but I sold it before doing this and bough a house - sob!

[niz406]

You have just summed up the difference between grip and handling!

Does the 406 grip?
Erm... No not really.
Does it handle well?
Erm... With all that weight and soft suspension... Not really.

Seriously before people talk about how well a 406 handles take a 205 Gti out for a spin, or a Williams Clio, or a Gti-6 or a Clio 172.

Small, agile, lightweight with less body roll, more grip and control on the much higher limit.

OMG... Eric, I cannot believe that you have just compared a 406's handling to those cars... LMAO! They are in a totally different class altogether, now try and make it more realistic:

Vectra
Mondeo
Laguna

And then your points will at least hold some credit! Oh and you can also not use the Clio as a motor that has "More control on the much higher limit" It turns into a three wheeler ! Handling would involve all 4 wheels

[Welly]

You've reminded my of my C reg XR2 I had I would chicken out LONG before the car in a corner.

And when you look at it now, it was only running on 14'' wheels with 185 tyres mind you it weighed about as much as an empty shoe box.

[Eric]

You have just summed up the difference between grip and handling!

Does the 406 grip?
Erm... No not really.
Does it handle well?
Erm... With all that weight and soft suspension... Not really.

Seriously before people talk about how well a 406 handles take a 205 Gti out for a spin, or a Williams Clio, or a Gti-6 or a Clio 172.

Small, agile, lightweight with less body roll, more grip and control on the much higher limit.

OMG... Eric, I cannot believe that you have just compared a 406's handling to those cars... LMAO! They are in a totally different class altogether, now try and make it more realistic:

Vectra
Mondeo
Laguna

And then your points will at least hold some credit! Oh and you can also not use the Clio as a motor that has "More control on the much higher limit" It turns into a three wheeler ! Handling would involve all 4 wheels

Ok so a new Mondy, Vectra or Laguna are worse than a 406?
I'd doubt that especially on the mondy which everyone seems to rave about.
But as I've only ever driven a Mondy, Laguna and Vectra once maybe you are right.

But where you are utterly wrong is the hatchbacks.

The point on the 3 wheeled car, guess what every one of the small French hatchbacks have in common?
Yup they all like to cock a leg in the air when given some beans and they all lift off oversteer or snap off oversteer.
It's not a fault, it's what they do.

Why would handling involve all four wheels?
Just because it's got four to start with, if it's fun on the edge and can drive on three wheels and stay well in control by user inputs not just mechanical grip, the car handles well.

Now I'll give the point about the turn in being very sharp and the steering responsive, which it is.
Also the wheel offers good feedback which is a French trait and why they are often considered good drivers cars.
But the steering being so light is a curse not a blessing when high speed cornering is involved.
Or do you think variable speed steering is a gimic?
Light steering is relaxing but you want to feel the wheel load up during a corner so you don't overcorrect or turn in too sharply and upset the car.
The feedback does make up for that though in a way because I can feel the tyres getting light as grip is close to the edge before it plows straight on and can adjust the throttle gently accordingly.
The thing is the 406 may reach that point at 30mph round a bend but the smaller hatchbacks would have to be going a lot faster than the 406 to do the same.
Yes the hatchbacks are a different class, but does that means the 406 has awesome handling?
Not to me, it may be good for it's class but if the bar is set that low for the class then it's not really an achievement.

I'm never going to say the 406 is anything but a great drive.
But in it's class of going in a straight line it excels, but I would never accuse the 406 of being a car that handles very well when there are a lot of cars out there no matter what class they are that actually do handle well.

[niz406]

Ok so a new Mondy, Vectra or Laguna are worse than a 406?
I'd doubt that especially on the mondy which everyone seems to rave about.
But as I've only ever driven a Mondy, Laguna and Vectra once maybe you are right.

But where you are utterly wrong is the hatchbacks.

The point on the 3 wheeled car, guess what every one of the small French hatchbacks have in common?
Yup they all like to cock a leg in the air when given some beans and they all lift off oversteer or snap off oversteer.
It's not a fault, it's what they do.

Why would handling involve all four wheels?

Light steering is relaxing but you want to feel the wheel load up during a corner so you don't overcorrect or turn in too sharply and upset the car.

The feedback does make up for that though in a way because I can feel the tyres getting light as grip is close to the edge before it plows straight on and can adjust the throttle gently accordingly.
The thing is the 406 may reach that point at 30mph round a bend but the smaller hatchbacks would have to be going a lot faster than the 406 to do the same.

Yes the hatchbacks are a different class, but does that means the 406 has awesome handling?
Not to me, it may be good for it's class but if the bar is set that low for the class then it's not really an achievement.

I'm never going to say the 406 is anything but a great drive.
But in it's class of going in a straight line it excels, but I would never accuse the 406 of being a car that handles very well when there are a lot of cars out there no matter what class they are that actually do handle well.

Again..... you are comparing the NEW versions (Vectra, Mondeo, LAguna) against a 10 year old + model the 406! So your point is.... pointless, oh except for the fact that the new vectra has appaling handling, even the VXR!

Hatchbacks - Saloons - Coupes - Estates - MPV's = different classes, The differences effect handling, these factors include, weight distribution, wheelbase, trim, wheels, tyres, suspension, rollbars, steering config, body roll/flex... etc... the list is endless!

A smaller car with a typically shorter wheelbase will out handle larger saloons: FACT!

Good handling would be represented by the ability to corner with all 4 wheels in contact with the tramac, maximising traction / grip etc.. if a wheel leaves the floor under heavy cornering then this IMO proves that the technology / setup used is no all that great.

And again you keep going back to classes, I'm sure that if Peugeot wanted to make the 406 out handle some of these other cars / classes they would of done so... but in relation to the competition around @ THAT TIME, the 406 was a far better option!

[Eric]

Ok so a new Mondy, Vectra or Laguna are worse than a 406?
I'd doubt that especially on the mondy which everyone seems to rave about.
But as I've only ever driven a Mondy, Laguna and Vectra once maybe you are right.

But where you are utterly wrong is the hatchbacks.

The point on the 3 wheeled car, guess what every one of the small French hatchbacks have in common?
Yup they all like to cock a leg in the air when given some beans and they all lift off oversteer or snap off oversteer.
It's not a fault, it's what they do.

Why would handling involve all four wheels?

Light steering is relaxing but you want to feel the wheel load up during a corner so you don't overcorrect or turn in too sharply and upset the car.

The feedback does make up for that though in a way because I can feel the tyres getting light as grip is close to the edge before it plows straight on and can adjust the throttle gently accordingly.
The thing is the 406 may reach that point at 30mph round a bend but the smaller hatchbacks would have to be going a lot faster than the 406 to do the same.

Yes the hatchbacks are a different class, but does that means the 406 has awesome handling?
Not to me, it may be good for it's class but if the bar is set that low for the class then it's not really an achievement.

I'm never going to say the 406 is anything but a great drive.
But in it's class of going in a straight line it excels, but I would never accuse the 406 of being a car that handles very well when there are a lot of cars out there no matter what class they are that actually do handle well.

Again..... you are comparing the NEW versions (Vectra, Mondeo, LAguna) against a 10 year old + model the 406! So your point is.... pointless, oh except for the fact that the new vectra has appaling handling, even the VXR!

Hatchbacks - Saloons - Coupes - Estates - MPV's = different classes, The differences effect handling, these factors include, weight distribution, wheelbase, trim, wheels, tyres, suspension, rollbars, steering config, body roll/flex... etc... the list is endless!

A smaller car with a typically shorter wheelbase will out handle larger saloons: FACT!

Good handling would be represented by the ability to corner with all 4 wheels in contact with the tramac, maximising traction / grip etc.. if a wheel leaves the floor under heavy cornering then this IMO proves that the technology / setup used is no all that great.

And again you keep going back to classes, I'm sure that if Peugeot wanted to make the 406 out handle some of these other cars / classes they would of done so... but in relation to the competition around @ THAT TIME, the 406 was a far better option!

Ok we'll agree to disagree
All my points are IMHO and IMHO the 406 really doesn't handle well - But doesn't mean it isn't nice to drive.
But again, whatever people are happiest driving is the most important thing - In fact the only thing that counts.
All pub/ forum car chat is meaningless generally as everyone is different and has different opinions of what makes a great car.
Otherwise all cars would be identical.

[Welly]

For my 2p,

The 406 handled well when compared to other cars in the 90's but things have moved on now and it can't really be called a tidy handling car today.

That said, and it still holds true today, is that how many N/P/R reg Mondeos and Vectras do you see in 2007 that can actually still be classed as a decent car with plenty of service left?

So the 406 is/was one of the best saloons in the middle price bracket.

[Miles]

Nice post,
I must say my 406 even thou it's the Estate is pretty good in all area's, It has beaten 205's etc on a timed sprint circuit, but I have had 6 yr's race experance under my belt which makes the most differance, Just got back from the Ring and even thou I could only do 1/2 lap at full speed before everything go too hot not much could keep up with me on the twisties and that's on 170k std Damper's which have seen there best

Intresting comment on the 3 and 4 wheel handling, But there's nothing wrong with 3 wheel's going around a courner as the inside rear does nothing really and is a common site with any FWD car

[mjb]

Again..... you are comparing the NEW versions (Vectra, Mondeo, LAguna) against a 10 year old + model the 406! So your point is.... pointless, oh except for the fact that the new vectra has appaling handling, even the VXR!

I've driven both the new and old Laguna and found the handling of them to be dire compared to my 406. I actually had a friend throw up after being in my Mk.1 Laguna because it was like being on a boat it rolled that much!

It did have some good points though - It was more comfortable than the 406 over long distances and it was much, much easier to get going sidewards despite the fact it had half the power of my '6.

However that was also its undoing as I wrote it off going round a corner in the wet at about 20mph! It was always horrible for understeer, but this just took me off the other side of the road and into enough soft mud to crumple the bumper and chassis. I was always scared of wet cornering in that thing and before you blame the tyres, they were the same ones I use on my 406 now!

I do think the Audi A4 (of a similar age) handles marginally better than the 406 though. It's much more tight round corners but that comes at the cost of a very uncomfortable ride.

[STALLED]

For my 2p,

The 406 handled well when compared to other cars in the 90's but things have moved on now and it can't really be called a tidy handling car today.

That said, and it still holds true today, is that how many N/P/R reg Mondeos and Vectras do you see in 2007 that can actually still be classed as a decent car with plenty of service left?

So the 406 is/was one of the best saloons in the middle price bracket.

True that!

My mate had a 2.0 Veccy and with it lowered on 17's it was still no match for mine through the corners!

[rapport25]

Look on a taxi rank what make do you see pug 406's so they must be reliable for someone . Had a taxi into town sat just gone. Had a good chat about the pug. Which bored the sh*t out of the other half. He said he would be getting a new taxi v soon and guess what it was? Another 406 hdi but one of the last ones i think 03/ 04 he said. This was his 15 406 in 10 yrs. He said he drives like a loon which i agree with. Lots of country lanes by me. He said after the next pug hits 800,000 yes 800,000 he would be buying a skoda octavia tdi. As he thinks the 407's are sh*t i love the look of them but not impressed with drive one bit. I feel peugeot are going backwards. As my previous threads have said this is my last and i will be buying a bmw 5 series diesel.