Insurance woes.

[D9406]

My other car, a 206, has been written off due to a woman in a 4X4 T boning it in a car park. Direct Line said no problem the other party, also DL, has admitted full liability we'll sort it out wont cost you a penny. Next day their engineer rang, valued the car @25% lower than replacement cost and then said that the claim had been put on hold as Lexus rear lights had been fitted and it was up to the claim handlers to see if they would pay out or reject the claim.
Now waiting to hear.

[Busman]

Where did you get the after market lights from? Do you think they are legal ones or not? Have you any way of proving to the insurance company that these retro fitted lights comply with the construction and use regulations? These are the sorts of questions that insurance companies will ask in cases like these, and it may help if you can get some answers ready.
We change a lot of rear light clusters on coaches to led type fittings. When we have done it we take the coach to the local VOSA test center they check them as being legal and give us a new certificate of compliance in case we have any problems in the future. All lights on vehicles are governed by some amazingly complicated regulations, designed to ensure the legality of their use, and that they comply with certain peramiters, eg dont dazzle, can be seen etc. I know that many makes of Lexus type lights are not legal. Just because lots of people use them, dosent make them legal.
Another issue here is that because there are so many fraudulent claims around, insurance companies are much more carefull and looking for ways not to pay out.
Fingers crossed yours are ok, and I hope you will be fine.

[D9406]

They were fitted by previous owner, passed 4 MOT's and have, from memory, various markings stamped on them. Can't check at the moment as car is in a body shop. Direct Line say unless mods are reported to them they may reject, reduce or void claim. Mods are bodywork, engine, wheels, suspension and includes OEM optional extras. fitted by you or previous owner, in the terms and conditions at the back of booklet, car must be entirely original unless advised to them. Doesn't look good.
Thats the majority of cars out then.

[waue1978]

Don't think it's them questioning the legality of the lights, more a case of the lights being an undeclared modification which can void your insurance. I'm afraid the only argument that I know of that people have used in that situation is that they were on the car when they bought it & that they didn't know they were different to standard.

[Busman]

Oh dear. This is why i tend just to leave my cars as they came out of the factory. The lights will have a british standard kite mark, or eu markings, on them if they are legal.
I seem to remember on my last insurance renewal a question along the lines of '' has this car been changed or modified in any way''.
This is an issue that I can see both sides of. People should be allowed to alter things on their cars that dont affect saftey. But insurance companies dont want to know about cars with modifications that may be done to a varying standard. We have all seen cars with the wrong wheels on for example. Which will obviously affect breaking and handling.
A real minefield this one.

[benczuk]

Oh dear. This is why i tend just to leave my cars as they came out of the factory.

Even then you could be in the wrong, when it was ordered did the buyer spec a slightly different alloy design, upgrade steel wheels to alloys, or even add mud flaps? Even though these were fitted at the factory they still count as modifications believe it or not. Trouble is as soon as you declare a 'modification' on the comparison sites they cant help you anymore

[StevieboyTD]

Hang on a second, why the hell are your insurance company having any say in if your car is repaired?

The other party did the damage, the other party are responsible for fixing it, not your insurance company. (I know you both have the same company providing cover, but this is the fault of the other person, your lights had nothing to do with the accident)

As for the cost, scour Autotrader, Ebay & local papers for similar cars and print out the adverts, give them proof that their valuation is wrong.

[highlander]

As for the cost, scour Autotrader, Ebay & local papers for similar cars and print out the adverts, give them proof that their valuation is wrong.

I was with Direct Line on my old 406 saloon, which was hit by a van while parked up unattended on the roadside (I was test-driving what is now my Coupe at the time). The other driver left the scene without leaving insurance details.

Stupidly, I decided to claim the cost of repairs on insurance - when I got the car to the repair centre, the guy there decided my car would be written off, as the value of the car was £1000 (it was worth more than that in my book). When I tried to dispute this he said that Direct Line don't negotiate on value; it goes by the Glass's Guide price. When I looked that up and found it was worth more than that on the Glass's Guide anyway, I called Direct Line and they said their local guy's valuation was final.

It got worse - Direct Line dug their claws in and wouldn't budge when they realised the car had been fitted with a stainless steel exhaust, genuine Peugeot 406 spoiler, and Peugeot alloy wheels (I could have sworn I'd told them about all of this, but they disputed that too). I ended up having to pay them for the difference between what my policy had actually cost me and what my policy should have cost if these modifications had been on the policy. That was expensive. It got to the point that if I did accept their payout of £1,000 minus the money I'd just spent bringing my previous year's policy in line with the modifications on the car, I'd have got less than half the car's actual value - AND my No-Claims Bonus would have been lost.

So then I called them up and cancelled the claim. They told me they'd give me back my NCB, and I'd hear more from them in a few week's time. Fair enough, I thought. But then I didn't. So I called my new insurer up (Admiral, who are covering my Coupe) and told them that I should now have my NCB back, and they can get proof of NCB from my old insurer. They called Direct Line and were told that the NCB hadn't been released.

I went ballistic and phone Direct Line - they told me that the NCB hadn't been released because they were awaiting payment from me. Again, I went ballistic and demanded to know what more money they were waiting for. The guy I was speaking to couldn't tell me, as it was in the hands of the Total Loss Department (or something like that). So I asked them to pass me through to them, and he said he wasn't allowed to, as they were not customer-facing. Okay, so exactly how was I meant to find out what the dispute was? So the guy eventually relented and gave me their phone number.

I eventually got through to someone who told me that the claim was on hold because I owed them £55-ish for the cost of the vehicle inspection. I wondered how a 5 minute look over the car (during which he didn't actually lay his hands on the car at any point) would cost that much. She said it was a service that Direct Line were billed for, and since I'd cancelled the claim, I'd have to foot the bill. If I didn't pay, the claim would go down on the insurance database as an "at-fault" claim despite the fact I hadn't been anywhere near the car when the other party had hit it. I ended up having to write them a cheque for that sum as my NCB and my reputation on the insurance database would be worth a lot more than the £55 I apparently owned.

Eventually, I scrapped the car as it wouldn't sell in the state it was in (also needed £300 of repairs to get it through its MOT).

So some total fuckwit in a works van has cost me big-time. If the car was in good shape, I could have sold it for as much as £1200, and the car would have been on the road. I had to spend more than £300 paying the insurers just to get my NCB back.

Everyone I've spoken to since who has had a claim with Direct Line has said that if there isn't anyone else to claim the money from, Direct Line will try anything and everything to f*ck you over. My colleague referred to them as "the Arnold Clark of insurance". Avoid them at all costs.

[rwb]

Good point StevieboyTD.
You are not claiming on your insurance; you are claiming on their insurance -- as part of their third party cover.

The other party's insurer have a duty to defend against your claim. However, the other party has admitted liability therefore there is nothing to defend.

[kevtherev]

Good point StevieboyTD.
You are not claiming on your insurance; you are claiming on their insurance -- as part of their third party cover.

The other party's insurer have a duty to defend against your claim. However, the other party has admitted liability therefore there is nothing to defend.

but if both parties are with direct line then it will be direct line payin either way and will try their utmost to wriggle out of payinn is how i see it. hope you get it sorted chap!!
on a side note are their any decent honest insurers out there or can they all, safely be tarred with the same brush??

[D9406]

Just phoned Direct Line to see what they are going to do and they want sight of V5 and original bill of sale, no problem will send them today, then the underwriters will make a decision. As it's DL v DL and other party admitted full liability I thought this would be easy. yes according to DL even OEM options fitted by dealer when car is bought results in a modification. Ridiculous. If they knew it had Lexus rear lights they said they would have quoted a different premium.

[StevieboyTD]

Just phoned Direct Line to see what they are going to do and they want sight of V5 and original bill of sale, no problem will send them today, then the underwriters will make a decision. As it's DL v DL and other party admitted full liability I thought this would be easy. yes according to DL even OEM options fitted by dealer when car is bought results in a modification. Ridiculous. If they knew it had Lexus rear lights they said they would have quoted a different premium.

They're talking sh*t, they're treating this like a claim against your policy (where they'd be looking to "discredit" your policy to prevent paying out, or make you pay a higher policy cost).

The "stuff fitted from the factory isn't legit" line is crap too, i'd love to see that policy stand up in court.

You might have had to pay a higher premium if you'd declared the lexus lights (on the statistically proven basis that lexus light owners are usually boy racers who splat their cars and make a claim), but this isn't about your policy, it's about the other drivers policy, just because they're with the same company shouldn't matter, especially when the person admits liability.

[rwb]

I agree with StevieboyTD.

To re-iterate: your insurance policy is irrelevant because you are not claiming on your insurance.

All this business about mods to your car is a complete red herring.

It may be the case that the other party's insurer prefer to deal directly with your insurer. This seems to be causing confusion -- besides being an obvious conflict of interest.

The relevant policy is the third party cover of the other party.

It sounds like DirectLine have got a bit confused too. I would explain to them again that the other party has admitted fault and therefore you are making a not at fault claim, i.e., this is to be settled wholly from the other party's insurer; nothing less is acceptable.

If your insurer have now decided that they are not willing to honour your policy (and thus pursue the other party's insurer on your behalf) then you will have to settle the matter yourself; either directly with the other party, or probably using the small claims court. (This isn't as scary as it sounds, and you have a fairly clear case.) Explain this to your insurer, and inform them that the must now decide either: (a) to honour your policy and pursue the other party under a not at fault claim, or (b) that they will end up in the small claims court because -- coincidentally -- they are also the other party's insurer. They'll try and talk you out of (b) which is just more of their bollocks -- but make sure you have the bollocks to go through with (b). You might need to go through the "ask for manager and explain again" cycle a few times.

Good luck, and at least it isn't as bad as poor highlander

[lozz]

Ihad Lexarse lights on a Rover 25,
irang my insurers they just said as long as they had the Kite mark there wasnt a problem,


Ask them to provide you a courtesy car, and watch how quick they will want to put the claim to an end,

[D9406]

Had a courtesy car for 7 days so far, pug is sat in a scrap yard awaiting breaking once DL give them the word. They have said I can keep the car until the total loss dept have issued payment.