405 to 406 Conversion

[Hangar18]

Right Guys,

Today I started my 405 up for the first time in months (with a little help from the 406!) I'm not going to bat around the bush.

I MISS IT!!

Couplea things to discuss-
1) legalities behind switching the 70k xu10j2te block into the 405's bay (turbo petrol)
2) practicalities behind actually getting the engine into place- exhaust/power train/power steering/turbo
3) Insurance costs
4) Anybody want a low mileage 406 executive without an engine? (electric, heated(needs looking at), leather seats, working climate control, 6 CD-changer, electric windows round, alloys) breaking can be arranged?

There's a few other things that I'm thinking about also- what're you guys thinking?

[steve_earwig]

I'm thinking "more trouble than it's worth", that's what I'm thinking...

1. You will need an engineer's report before you could even put it on the road. You will need to upgrade the brakes and probably change the suspension.
2. No idea, you might have to have custom parts made, it doesn't look like the ML gearboxes were fitted to any 405 so you might have to include these in custom parts list (always possible the 406 'shafts might fit)
3. Modified car insurance? You might want to keep the Focus...
4. Yes please, you'll need to pay for the shipping though

Have a good old Google anyway, there's always the chance you're not the first person to do this

[omega]

i understand the 405 thing as i had one and was well happy with it ,better than the 406 not sure
switching the engine you will have to tell the dvla and you might need a engineers report for the insurance depending on which company you use.
i cant see why the engine wont fit as the 405 engine bay is massive,yes you will have to mod parts but its got to be doable
is the xu10 the 16 valve engine?

[steve_earwig]

The turbo is an 8 valver. I fink...

Don't get me wrong, it does sound like an interesting idea but it might run to a fair few euros.

[rwb]

Don't do it!
That 406 is a brilliant car.

[ally406]

I know what you mean mate. Having both cars myself, I can say that the 406 handles better, stops better, is quieter, comfier, more modern...........but......somehow the 405 is a more engaging drive. Mine is parked up in the garage with rotten rear chassis legs, but I can't wait for the day it's rolling one more time.

As the 405 and 406 shared a lot of engines, I would imagine the mounts won't be a problem. As mentioned the gearbox could be another issue. Brakes wise the mk1 406 and 405 shared the same hub assembly, I would think that you could swap the calipers, discs and brackets straight off a mk1 406 to a 405, although you will need a 15" wheel if not already fitted.

To be honest it sounds like the 406 is good 'un and would be a shame to waste. Would you not be better selling it on complete and using the cash to buy a suitable engine?

[FarmerPug]

a 405 with a defaped 2.2 hdi

[Doggy]

a 405 with a defaped 2.2 hdi

Impossible.

(No armrests).

[FarmerPug]

a 405 with a defaped 2.2 hdi

Impossible.

(No armrests).

noooooooooo

if it was possible to try and overcome the armrests would it be posible with a bit of shoehorning the 2.2 where a 1.9 xud went, i seen a 2.2 in a 205 so it must be possible in the bigger 405

perhaps you could hook up a sling to act as an armrest

[waue1978]

a 405 with a defaped 2.2 hdi

Impossible.

(No armrests).

Not quite as good as the ones on the 406, but I have seen a few (but not many) with the Mercedes style large armrest inbetween the front seats. 2.2 405 would be interesting, but would have a very limited appeal as most would just look & say "why didn't you just get a 2.2 406?". I'd love to see it in a 306 convertible though. Don't think they did a Peugeot HDi convertible until the 308.

[FarmerPug]

the appeal would be limited but a 406 with the mi16 kit on it and a 2.2 hdi would look the buisness.
or a 305 van with a 2.2 the fastest way to move a ladder , appeal would be even more limited.

the engine would fit after a bit of cutting and welding but what about the electrical issues of such a transplant

[Hangar18]

I'm impressed and flattered with the responses- and I'm also glad that i'm not alone in thinking that the 405 would benefit from a BIT more power

Steve-
1) I'm looking at he legalities... tempted to not road it for the time being to be honest, there is quite a bit of work that I would like to do to be happy with the 405 hauling more power- I got close enough to the edge of grip and handling on multiple occasions with its mere 100hp and sub 100lb/ft ;)!!

2) custom parts... I'm thinking of keeping the 406 together after RWB's (amongst friends' [not that you're not a friend!] comments) and I've seen quite a few ES9 Js on eBay for around the £300 mark recently...

3) Insurance... blah- the car with ANY modifications through confused sky rockets to £11k - so this is going to put my off putting the car on the road again

4) Me selling this car will hinge upon my ability to find something I want... not quite sure where it's at right now... not sure if I want a peugeot or not..

Omega-
I'm not so sure about the tubby... trying to think of a more feasible candidate- I'm looking for around 250hp ideally- anything above 200 would be ace

Steve-
French track-day modding expensive... you've been in the euro too long ;)

RWB-
NOTED!

Ally-
Within 5 minutes of firing up that tired old 405, I'd driven it around a private carpark no faster than 35mph... getting back into the 406 was just a little too relaxed and refined =/

Farmer-
Are 2.2HDis affordable to purchase? and would the exhaust system fit in?

Doggy-
That made me belly laugh hard at work- you nearly blew my cover! haha

Waue-
the 2.2 16v engine... is it actually any good? just seems like a well rounded 4 pot to me? I'm looking for something a little "interesting" !!

Farmer again-
It has an MI16 kit on it despite being a glx !!

[FarmerPug]

A 2.2 shouldnt be too expensive you can get one out of a D9 406 or C5, and the 607, i suppose it depends on where the engine is and how its being sold, it could be in a car which got wrote off then it might not be too expensive. As for the exhaust, you may need to speak to someone who has done a defap but it doesnt sound too hard.

[Doggy]

I think the exhaust would be the least of your worries - if it's de-fapped, it doesn't care what's attached, just needs to be big enough.

The electrics will work fine, so long as the engine ecu 'thinks' its in a D9 406.

The image I can't shake is the torque reaction effect of 400 Nm on the 405 chassis/body - I can see it folding in the middle & dragging its belly around like an overweight dachshund........

[waue1978]

Farmer-
Are 2.2HDis affordable to purchase? and would the exhaust system fit in?

Doggy-
That made me belly laugh hard at work- you nearly blew my cover! haha

Waue-
the 2.2 16v engine... is it actually any good? just seems like a well rounded 4 pot to me? I'm looking for something a little "interesting" !!

Farmer again-
It has an MI16 kit on it despite being a glx !!

Would that be the 3/4 Mi16 kit that they fitted to the last 405s or did you retrofit the whole kit yourself? My old GTX saloon had that, but was missing the rear spoiler & the wheelarch mouldings to fully look like an Mi16.

I was actually referring to the 2.2 HDi (as per Farmer's suggestion) but in all honesty, you rarely see one of those for sale at an affordable price & the logistics of actually fitting it to an older Pug like a 405 would probably be an utter nightmare.

If you're up for it, I do have a bit of an overall suggestion, but it depends on how your funds are & how unhappy with the 406 you are.

As you say, 406 Turbos are selling for naff all at the moment so to sell yours would be a waste. But there is a flip side to that - it may mean that your car isn't worth much at face value at the moment, but the turbos that are being bought for peanuts at the moment aren't going to be around for long. There's a good chance that they'll get abused & thrashed &end up scrapped within the next couple of years. This will make 406 turbos a bit of a rare breed & your Exec will be a prime example over the odd couple of poverty spec SRis that will be left. That puts the car in the realms of potential classic status, especially with the low mileage on your one. When it comes to classic cars, originality is king, so however tempting it may be, I reckon you should leave as much as possible as Peugeot made it or at least make any mods easy to remove. This potential classic status could give you an angle to insure it cheaply. Shouldn't cost much to get it in show condition, save for a bit time & elbow grease cleaning everything - & I mean everything. Wheelarches, nooks & crannies, bit of hammerite on some of the hub & chassis components etc. Check out some of the cars on detailingworld.com for ideas.

I don't know a massive amount about your 405, but provided it's all in good order, that'll be even closer to classic status than the 406. Check out Ebay & Autotrader & there's only ever a handful for sale anymore. I'm not sure what engine the code means, but I'm guessing petrol. If you're planning on doing engine swap work yourself, then there are a few affordable options available to the 405. Pretty sure that a change to diesel would be a total a*seache, but if it isn't a 2.1td 405 would be interesting. As far as petrol options go, the GTi6 engine has 167bhp & is based on the engine that was in the Mi16s. Not sure if the gearbox would go though. Could even have a go with the Saxo VTS/106 GTi 1.6 16v engine to get a bit more grunt & room to work in the engine bay. After all, there'll be plenty of those having been written off.


Any of that sound any good to you?