which is a better car?

[grasmere59]

I am thinking of changing my 2002 Rapier 110 hdi estate and wondered which is a better car for reliability and running costs,would a remapped 2ltr 110bhp hdi or a standard 2.2ltr 136bhp hdi be a better buy?

[OdinEidolon]

110s are probably more reliable since they do not have a FAP.
But since the 2.2 FAP can be easily removed and the car remapped to 180bhp with little to no risks (ask dogslife on this forum) it may seem a better option.

The 110 is of course a tad more economical still the 2.2 will do 50mpg and is smoother.

Both are excellent engines if well cared after, the difference in reliability isn't huge and the 2.2 is overall a quieter and faster engine.

Whatever you find, make sure it has a well documented service history, not necessarily from main dealers.

[FarmerPug]

The 2.0 is quite good, 110 bhp is the one to go for, just enough power for the 406. Its also cheaper to insure. But i still would like a 2.2 defapped, who doesn't like the idea of 180bhp.

[Doggy]

ain't no replacement for displacement

Not everyone agrees, but when it comes with 16 valves, variable geometry turbo, balancer shafts etc. the result is a considerably smoother, quieter and deceptivley quicker drive.

Really, it's horses for courses:

A 110 will definitely get you more mpg, lower road tax & possibly cheaper insurance.

The 2.2 is quieter, smoother quicker and gains more from a remap. Budget about £50/£60 for ridding it of the FAP - you may even pick one up really cheaply because of dpf issues.

[grasmere59]

I've been looking at a 2.2 with 100k odd on the clock,apparently it's had a new fap(whatever that is lol) etc at 80k odd,my 110 is a good car but is just a bit lacking in go although it's dead reliable,i just don't want to jump out of the frying pan into the fire if you know what i mean,tax is £60 a year more and the insurance goes up 5 groups for the 2.2.It's the reliability issue that bothers me as the 110's seem to go on forever and ever but i'm not sure about the 136's? are they still good for big mileages?

[OdinEidolon]

I've been looking at a 2.2 with 100k odd on the clock,apparently it's had a new fap(whatever that is lol) etc at 80k odd,my 110 is a good car but is just a bit lacking in go although it's dead reliable,i just don't want to jump out of the frying pan into the fire if you know what i mean,tax is £60 a year more and the insurance goes up 5 groups for the 2.2.It's the reliability issue that bothers me as the 110's seem to go on forever and ever but i'm not sure about the 136's? are they still good for big mileages?

A big yes there.
No big concerns. Clutches seem to be solid, the turbo can break as in every car but it's pretty reliable compared to some fiats or VWs...

[FarmerPug]

do the 2.2s have the dual mass flywheel, and funny crankshaft pulley of the 2.0?

[Doggy]

I bought my 2.2 on October 2008 with 103k miles - remapped it to 180 bhp in July 2010 @ 137k, now on 165k & still as fit as a butchers dog.

Other than normal servicing / bulbs etc, the only parts I've replaced are a set of injectors, a back box, flexible exhaust section, aircon condenser, a drop link or two & a set of discs. Total cost, about £600.

[Doggy]

do the 2.2s have the dual mass flywheel, and funny crankshaft pulley of the 2.0?

Yes, they have both.

The flywheel clutch assembly is bigger.

While crank pulleys do fail, it doesn't seem as common a problem as on as 2.0 HDi's, (my Xsara HDi 90 had 3 in 100k, this one AFAIK is still the original).

[OdinEidolon]

do the 2.2s have the dual mass flywheel, and funny crankshaft pulley of the 2.0?

Yes, they have both.

The flywheel clutch assembly is bigger.

While crank pulleys do fail, it doesn't seem as common a problem as on as 2.0 HDi's, (my Xsara HDi 90 had 3 in 100k, this one AFAIK is still the original).

It's a problem of all diesel PSA engines of those period, included ours. I heard of two Fiat Ulysses with the 2.2 PSA engine with a broken pulley.

By the way how do you diagnose a pulley that's going to break?

[FarmerPug]

ive never had it break the dealer my car came from replaced the pulley at 88k but from youtube and reading here it makes a clicking sound, the youtube video is the best way to hear what its like

[OdinEidolon]

ive never had it break the dealer my car came from replaced the pulley at 88k but from youtube and reading here it makes a clicking sound, the youtube video is the best way to hear what its like

Got it, easy peasy, thanks.

[FarmerPug]

dmf problems sounds like a cross between an airy fart and someone dragging an old wooden school chair across a floor.
the 2.2 is available in the 407 but it puts out 170bhp

[waue1978]

I've been looking at a 2.2 with 100k odd on the clock,apparently it's had a new fap(whatever that is lol) etc at 80k odd,my 110 is a good car but is just a bit lacking in go although it's dead reliable,i just don't want to jump out of the frying pan into the fire if you know what i mean,tax is £60 a year more and the insurance goes up 5 groups for the 2.2.It's the reliability issue that bothers me as the 110's seem to go on forever and ever but i'm not sure about the 136's? are they still good for big mileages?

If it's the same one that I've spotted (shiny red one - won't post up a link), it looks to be a good one. Only down the road from Doggy too. Don't write off the 2.2 as being too much thirstier either as it really depends on your driving style. When I was looking at the C5s not so long ago I was resetting the trip computer & found that they seemed to be slightly better than my 110 due to the better power band.

[OdinEidolon]

I've been looking at a 2.2 with 100k odd on the clock,apparently it's had a new fap(whatever that is lol) etc at 80k odd,my 110 is a good car but is just a bit lacking in go although it's dead reliable,i just don't want to jump out of the frying pan into the fire if you know what i mean,tax is £60 a year more and the insurance goes up 5 groups for the 2.2.It's the reliability issue that bothers me as the 110's seem to go on forever and ever but i'm not sure about the 136's? are they still good for big mileages?

If it's the same one that I've spotted (shiny red one - won't post up a link), it looks to be a good one. Only down the road from Doggy too. Don't write off the 2.2 as being too much thirstier either as it really depends on your driving style. When I was looking at the C5s not so long ago I was resetting the trip computer & found that they seemed to be slightly better than my 110 due to the better power band.

Well i struggle to go past 50mpg on the 2.2 and I'm really slow. But I have 2 knakered injectors (doggy helped me out with the other 2), EGR problems and still the FAP. Without those problems I'd be likely to get 55+ mpg.
For the use I make of the car (70% motorway, 20% big 50mph country roads, 5% mountain roads and 5% city) I bet I'd be able to get 60 with the 110.
My real mileage is in the link below, not bad for a car this age.

What'd worry me when buying a 2.2 would be insurance and tax. Still, if I had gotten the 110 instead of the 136, I'd have regretted it, the 2.2 is so smooth even with the problems I have.