Manual Gearbox - what is the point?

[Welly]

Took my 17 year old daughter for a cheeky drive in the MIL's i10 yesterday on a very large empty Car Park.

She'd never driven a car before and being Automatic she found it made total sense i.e. Drive or Reverse and then you're free to get on with the business of steering and braking. Simple.

When I explained about manual gearboxes and clutch pedals she couldn't see the point of all that and, to be fair, what is the point really? we all drive in cities and stop/start situations where the Auto box excels. Some manufacturers have stopped selling manual's on certain models now in favour of Auto's and it got me thinking of 'future cars' I can't really see the manual shift staying around?

I know in the UK an Auto is seen as the choice of old people but really I'd say it was the smart choice given the amount of traffic etc. I've certainly enjoyed driving one in the last week; it's a real treat.

Be nice to hear your opinions?

[steve_earwig]

I think most people's problem is the extra fuel consumption, followed by the feeling that you're not really in control. Potentially crippling repair costs too probably.

Yeah, I realise modern autos are much better on fuel consumption, some even better than their manual counterparts but that's generally with lots of motorway use, due to a higher top gear.

I dunno, I prefer them myself, maybe because I'm lazy.

Yoyo2 has the higher top gear (I'd say overdrive but apparently it has an "underdrive" presumably on the lower gears) but that doesn't do me much good as most of my driving is around town. Only 4 speeds too, which I think is a rarity these days where auto boxes have 7, 8, 9 speeds, presumably to try and keep it in the tiny power band.

Btw I've not driven a DSG and know little about them, I don't even know if they have a torque converter

[lozz]

Auto's are OK..
It's just when they go wrong that's the problem.. IMHO.

[PeterN]

I would agree. Failure of an auto box in a car with the value of the ones I run would write it off. Additionally as Steve said its very difficult to 'nurse' an auto to get a good fuel consumption, but perhaps the best argument against one for people of a certain age is that most serious accidents involving elderly people occur in an automatic, with a manual you have to concentrate and therefore get your mind into gear. most elderly people although probably quite proficient at driving think more slowly than an auto box reacts.

Peter

[Doggy]

Next time you overcook it and just manage to get round a corner, ask yourself whether you wished you'd been driving* an auto.
(Who knows, maybe you've got a thing about nurses)?

[PeterN]

I don't drive that fast I'm old.

[lozz]

I don't drive fast either..
Tell'a. Lie.. Some times I has to to avoid ' some clown or what ever..

[Welly]

This 'ere little Hyundai seems to do a sterling job of engine braking, or rather there hasn't been any OMG BRAKE! episodes yet which kinda surprised me. Maybe it's because it's a 1.2 pez and weighs not very much heavy.

[rwb]

Well as a general rule of thumb I much prefer things to stay where I put them than not.

However, with all this new fangled electricity mumbo jumbo maybe it's time to rethink the controls more fundamentally?

Didn't BMW used a CVT in the mini but programmed it to pretend to have gears?

[KozmoNaut]

Didn't BMW used a CVT in the mini but programmed it to pretend to have gears?

A lot of cars with CVTs have "sport" modes that simulate gear changes. However, they all do it very badly so it feels like the clutch it slipping between gears, and they end up making the car slower to accelerate than if you just leave it in the normal setting. It's completely and utterly pointless.

I used to be 100% anti-automatic gearboxes because I thought I could do a better job with a manual, which was probably true when considering older automatic gearboxes, but these days it's a tough argument to make. I still prefer to change my own gears, but I'm not opposed to driving an automatic instead, especially for everyday driving. The most important thing with an automatic is probably to have an engine with decent torque. Torque-less revvy engines just don't work well with automatics.

[nickrose137]

Spending £600 on a new clutch last summer reminded me of what a good idea automatics are . (No choice really - the clutch release bearing failed a week before we were due to set off for Italy on holiday.) I do prefer automatics now, but have never yet found a suitable one nearby when I've been looking for a car.
It's simple really: if, for an easy life, I want to delegate the gear changes to something that can't see the road ahead, I can expect to pay for that with poorly judged gear changes and therefore extra fuel consumption!

[KozmoNaut]

In my experience, you can trick an automatic into downshiftning or upshiftning ahead of time by either blipping the throttle or momentarily letting up on it. You'll maintain roughly the same speed, but the gearbox will shift into a gear that fits your throttle input. Similarly, you can smooth out the upshifts by just letting off the throttle a tiny bit just as it's about to shift up.

Of course, this is based on driving my parents' old Mercs, a 1988 C190 and a 1996 C250. Once I got into the rhythm of signalling my intentions with the throttle pedal, progress became much smoother. You can't just get in and mash the gas/brake, there's a little bit of finesse to it.

[Welly]

That's how this i10's box works, it's an old style auto and I was doing the same as you in encouraging a gear change using the throttle.

It did surprise me on the M1 though when it downshifted at 70mph and hooned up to 4500 rpm

[steve_earwig]

That's the point of auto boxes though, you can't just use the throttle pedal like it's a big on/off switch, you have to use it to tell the box what you want it to do.

For engine braking you can shift the lever down, that's why it has all those lower numbers on it, they're not for decoration...

Now if I could only get the box in yoyoII to play ball: I just want to go a bit faster, come on, accelerate but stay in the same gear. No, don't fuggin kick down argh!

[GingerMagic]

I have an auto box on my lorry - its a 12 speed auto....

It is nearly impossible to slowly maneuver into a narrow drive on a hill, because as soon as you let off the throttle to ease into the drive you will instantly start rolling down the hill - so you have to go with all throttle and try to get in the gap without even slightly lifting the throttle - its a recipe for disaster. Clutch control on a manual box is the answer..

Don't get me wrong, the auto is okay for round town driving even if it does change gear 6 times in 100 yards and way to early, but when you get to a hill it stays in 12th gear until it nearly stalls, then drops to 10th ( nearly stalls.. ) then to 6th gear and will either stall or then drop to 2nd gear and lurch forward, then immediately change up to 6th, and then stall.....