Soot in engine?

Discuss, ask, or get help with engine and mechanical queries in here.

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Captain Jack
3.0 24v
Posts: 3820
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 11:26 am
Location: Langford, Somerset

Re: Soot in engine?

Post by Captain Jack »

That air dozer is annoying. All it seems to do is seep oil from the seals onto the engine block. I already replaced it once with a new one but it started leaking within a few months.

Is Finchy on the coupe forums?
2003 - 2008: 1998 Peugeot 406 2.1 TD 110bhp LX Saloon
2008 - 2009: 2004 Honda Accord 2.2 CDTI 136bhp Executive Saloon
2009 - 2013: 2002 Peugeot 406 2.0 HDI 110bhp Executive Saloon
2013 - 2021: 2007 Peugeot 407 2.2 HDI 170bhp Executive Saloon (mapped to 213bhp :twisted:)
2021 - ????: 2016 Ford Mondeo 2.0 TDCi 180bhp Titanium
User avatar
Captain Jack
3.0 24v
Posts: 3820
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 11:26 am
Location: Langford, Somerset

Re: Soot in engine?

Post by Captain Jack »

Hm, yes, looks like you can get a straight through pipe made to bypass this dozer thing. They really gut their HDIs on the Coupe forums, don't they?
2003 - 2008: 1998 Peugeot 406 2.1 TD 110bhp LX Saloon
2008 - 2009: 2004 Honda Accord 2.2 CDTI 136bhp Executive Saloon
2009 - 2013: 2002 Peugeot 406 2.0 HDI 110bhp Executive Saloon
2013 - 2021: 2007 Peugeot 407 2.2 HDI 170bhp Executive Saloon (mapped to 213bhp :twisted:)
2021 - ????: 2016 Ford Mondeo 2.0 TDCi 180bhp Titanium
grasmere59
3.0 24v
Posts: 1457
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:23 pm

Re: Soot in engine?

Post by grasmere59 »

My 2003 110 exec hasn't got an air doser thingy just a straight through casting,my 2002 110 had one,might be worth looking out for a pipe from a 2003 hdi from a breakers.
2011 "11" Mondeo TXS est 200ps in Grey
2003 "53" 110 hdi Executive Estate in Diablo Red
2001 "51" BMW 530i sport in Black
2012 "62" Yamaha XT1200
1974 "M" Honda CB500/4
1994 "M" Kawasaki Zephyr 1100
1998 "S" Honda XRV 750
User avatar
rwb
3.0 24v
Posts: 2612
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 7:53 pm
Location: Yorkshireman exiled in Salop
Contact:

Re: Soot in engine?

Post by rwb »

Captain Jack wrote:They really gut their HDIs on the Coupe forums, don't they?
Yeah, and they're F*ing fast. :twisted: They keep up with the V6s

What the hell is an air doser doing on a 110? I thought they were something to do with FAP regeneration. (So therefore you've got an extra vacuum solenoid (i.e., 3 in total) on the bulkhead?)
Captain Jack wrote:Is Finchy on the coupe forums?
Yes.

Current: 407 2.2 HDi 170 & C6 2.7 HDi.
Former: 406 1.9 TD; 406 HDi 90; 407 2.2 160; 307cc 180; 508 HDi 140.
Map of PeugeotForums users offering PP2k
User avatar
Captain Jack
3.0 24v
Posts: 3820
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 11:26 am
Location: Langford, Somerset

Re: Soot in engine?

Post by Captain Jack »

Yeah, there are 3 there. Turbo, EGR and air dozer. Will go to my local metal works place and see if I get them to manufacture me one of them things.

By the way, do you blank the EGR itself (from the bottom) or just the two ends of the water cooler thing?
2003 - 2008: 1998 Peugeot 406 2.1 TD 110bhp LX Saloon
2008 - 2009: 2004 Honda Accord 2.2 CDTI 136bhp Executive Saloon
2009 - 2013: 2002 Peugeot 406 2.0 HDI 110bhp Executive Saloon
2013 - 2021: 2007 Peugeot 407 2.2 HDI 170bhp Executive Saloon (mapped to 213bhp :twisted:)
2021 - ????: 2016 Ford Mondeo 2.0 TDCi 180bhp Titanium
User avatar
rwb
3.0 24v
Posts: 2612
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 7:53 pm
Location: Yorkshireman exiled in Salop
Contact:

Re: Soot in engine?

Post by rwb »

The blanks I saw went under the EGR valve, and on the inlet manifold.
Both ends needed blanking because they'd removed the recirculation tubing.

I guess the simplest blanking method is to use one blank, and the inlet manifold looks easier to get to.
Give that you've blanked, I see no reason to also disconnect the vacuum supply to the EGR valve.

Current: 407 2.2 HDi 170 & C6 2.7 HDi.
Former: 406 1.9 TD; 406 HDi 90; 407 2.2 160; 307cc 180; 508 HDi 140.
Map of PeugeotForums users offering PP2k
grasmere59
3.0 24v
Posts: 1457
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:23 pm

Re: Soot in engine?

Post by grasmere59 »

What the hell is an air doser doing on a 110? I thought they were something to do with FAP regeneration. (So therefore you've got an extra vacuum solenoid (i.e., 3 in total) on the bulkhead?

My old 2002 110 Rapier had that doser thing and 3 bulkhead solenoids fitted as standard but no FAP.They must have thought it wasn't necessary as my 2003 110 has never had a doser thing fitted.
2011 "11" Mondeo TXS est 200ps in Grey
2003 "53" 110 hdi Executive Estate in Diablo Red
2001 "51" BMW 530i sport in Black
2012 "62" Yamaha XT1200
1974 "M" Honda CB500/4
1994 "M" Kawasaki Zephyr 1100
1998 "S" Honda XRV 750
User avatar
lozz
3.0 24v
Posts: 11908
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 10:18 pm
Location: where-ever

Re: Soot in engine?

Post by lozz »

Captain Jack wrote:Yeah, there are 3 there. Turbo, EGR and air dozer. Will go to my local metal works place and see if I get them to manufacture me one of them things.

By the way, do you blank the EGR itself (from the bottom) or just the two ends of the water cooler thing?

http://www.cxoc.net/index.php?topic=475 ... #msg168052
nutski
2.0 Turbo
Posts: 417
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2007 10:43 am
Location: Norwich

Re: Soot in engine?

Post by nutski »

Gutting the engine is a Coupe forum speciality :)

If you remove the EGR valve and blank the opening, then blank at the side of the inlet manifold, remove the piping that runs round to the water chamber pipe thing, the pipe is then only allowing coolant though the outside, its open either end where the gasses used to flow.

Also removed quite a few vacuum pipes, really does simplify the system.

The custom pipes are supplied by Nicowico on the Coupe forums who occasionally takes orders when there are 10 people that wants them supplied, unfortunately he has just closed off the most recent one, would be interesting to know if the air dozers on your 2.0 110 are the same as on the 2.2 meaning you would be able to use the same manufactured pipes.

Some people go to more extreme levels than others, on my estate i've only removed and blanked the EGR at both ends, on the Coupe i did that but also removed the air dozers and most of the redundant vacuum pipes, only the turbo EV needs anything connected to it, the other two can be removed if you take out enough.

I'll have a look on service box to see if i can compare the parts, would be handy if there were some parts to aquire from other models to do the job.
1997 2.1 TD Exec (Sold)
1997 3.0 V6 Coupe S (Sold)
2001 406 HDi 110 GTX (Sold)
2002 406 Coupe HDi SE (RIP)
2003 406 Estate HDi 2.2 SE (Sold)
2003 406 Coupe HDi SE (To be sold)
2001 406 Coupe 3.0 V6 SE
2003 406 2.2 HDi SE
User avatar
Captain Jack
3.0 24v
Posts: 3820
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 11:26 am
Location: Langford, Somerset

Re: Soot in engine?

Post by Captain Jack »

Yeah I saw that thread. Quite comprehensive.

So... The water cooler thing. I understand that there's an exhaust pipe in the middle and water runs on the outside. I take it that I must not disconnect the water pipes, else it will spill all the coolant out. But the pipe in the middle... is that removable?

However you say "remove the piping that runs round to the water chamber pipe thing" - won't that spill water everywhere? I've attached my understanding of the procedure...

Image
2003 - 2008: 1998 Peugeot 406 2.1 TD 110bhp LX Saloon
2008 - 2009: 2004 Honda Accord 2.2 CDTI 136bhp Executive Saloon
2009 - 2013: 2002 Peugeot 406 2.0 HDI 110bhp Executive Saloon
2013 - 2021: 2007 Peugeot 407 2.2 HDI 170bhp Executive Saloon (mapped to 213bhp :twisted:)
2021 - ????: 2016 Ford Mondeo 2.0 TDCi 180bhp Titanium
nutski
2.0 Turbo
Posts: 417
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2007 10:43 am
Location: Norwich

Re: Soot in engine?

Post by nutski »

Ok, so the water exchanger stays inplace itself, the pipe i was talking about is '23' on the attached picture, so the layout is a bit different to yours as this pipe kinda runs from the rear to the front of the engine. We remove that whole pipe and blank it at the front, so some of the parts then removed are:

10
16
18
19 x2
23

On the 2.2 engine from build code 9661 it doesn't have the water exchange, just has a recirculation pipe instead which connects 32 and 18
Capture.PNG
1997 2.1 TD Exec (Sold)
1997 3.0 V6 Coupe S (Sold)
2001 406 HDi 110 GTX (Sold)
2002 406 Coupe HDi SE (RIP)
2003 406 Estate HDi 2.2 SE (Sold)
2003 406 Coupe HDi SE (To be sold)
2001 406 Coupe 3.0 V6 SE
2003 406 2.2 HDi SE
User avatar
Captain Jack
3.0 24v
Posts: 3820
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 11:26 am
Location: Langford, Somerset

Re: Soot in engine?

Post by Captain Jack »

Ah yes, got it. The arrangement does look a little different. I'll have a look tomorrow to see how it would work on mine but I think the big metal pipe into which the air doser goes into, splits into two at the point where it enters the water cooler.
2003 - 2008: 1998 Peugeot 406 2.1 TD 110bhp LX Saloon
2008 - 2009: 2004 Honda Accord 2.2 CDTI 136bhp Executive Saloon
2009 - 2013: 2002 Peugeot 406 2.0 HDI 110bhp Executive Saloon
2013 - 2021: 2007 Peugeot 407 2.2 HDI 170bhp Executive Saloon (mapped to 213bhp :twisted:)
2021 - ????: 2016 Ford Mondeo 2.0 TDCi 180bhp Titanium
nutski
2.0 Turbo
Posts: 417
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2007 10:43 am
Location: Norwich

Re: Soot in engine?

Post by nutski »

I'll see if i can find some pictures of the later 2.0 HDi as my old one was a 2001, i'll check through servicebox aswell, might be able to see how its routed properly to let you know what would need to be removed.
1997 2.1 TD Exec (Sold)
1997 3.0 V6 Coupe S (Sold)
2001 406 HDi 110 GTX (Sold)
2002 406 Coupe HDi SE (RIP)
2003 406 Estate HDi 2.2 SE (Sold)
2003 406 Coupe HDi SE (To be sold)
2001 406 Coupe 3.0 V6 SE
2003 406 2.2 HDi SE
User avatar
rwb
3.0 24v
Posts: 2612
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 7:53 pm
Location: Yorkshireman exiled in Salop
Contact:

Re: Soot in engine?

Post by rwb »

Spurred on by this thread, I unplugged the two vacuum tubes from the solenoid and bunged them with the centre out of one of these clips.

No fault code after 15 miles.

What a difference! :shock:
OK, well it's quite subtle. If you weren't used to the car then you couldn't tell.

Specifically:

(1) When you knock the car into neutral the revs dip really low before settling. The dip doesn't happen any more.

(2) When you're on overrun and start to press the throttle for some power, the response is much quicker.

(3) When changing gears it's easier to match revs.

(4) On a long incline on my commute (45 in 5th) MPG was up from 30 to 34.


I reason that:

(1) when power is taken off the EGR opens; breathing in crap causes the dip.

(2) EGR is open on overrun, therefore no crap to flush before power returns.

(3) as (1), more predictable rev drop. Pulling the clutch switch slows the rate at which revs fall when you've eased off and then put your foot on the clutch. However, it's now clear to me that the problem is EGR making the rev drop unpredictable, and not the clutch switch making it too fast.

(4) You may well dispute this effect, and indeed I'm not convinced. It will take a couple of fills to measure any difference. However: if EGR is partially open on part throttle then this kind of figures. No crap therefore better burn from a given amount of fuel. We haven't changed the amount of fuel being injected, but we now guarantee that is now being burned in clean air.

Current: 407 2.2 HDi 170 & C6 2.7 HDi.
Former: 406 1.9 TD; 406 HDi 90; 407 2.2 160; 307cc 180; 508 HDi 140.
Map of PeugeotForums users offering PP2k
User avatar
Captain Jack
3.0 24v
Posts: 3820
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 11:26 am
Location: Langford, Somerset

Re: Soot in engine?

Post by Captain Jack »

Hm, when I unplugged the solenoid vacuum tubes, I honestly didn't notice any difference. Maybe my EGR was already knackered by the time I unplugged it?
2003 - 2008: 1998 Peugeot 406 2.1 TD 110bhp LX Saloon
2008 - 2009: 2004 Honda Accord 2.2 CDTI 136bhp Executive Saloon
2009 - 2013: 2002 Peugeot 406 2.0 HDI 110bhp Executive Saloon
2013 - 2021: 2007 Peugeot 407 2.2 HDI 170bhp Executive Saloon (mapped to 213bhp :twisted:)
2021 - ????: 2016 Ford Mondeo 2.0 TDCi 180bhp Titanium
Post Reply