Parking fine

[lozz]

Legalities ( From the Watch dog site:)

The main difference between an official penalty charge issued by the authorities and a parking charge issued by a private company is that there is nothing in criminal law to support a penalty or fine for parking on private land. Therefore they should not be described as penalties or fines, although many parking operators will label their notices a Parking Charge Notice, which they will also abbreviate to PCN. Make sure you are clear which type of ticket you have received.

In issuing a Parking Charge Notice, the parking operator is relying on the law of contract to make a claim for damages. The amount they ask for is to compensate for you breaching the contract you formed when you parked on the land in question. According to the Citizen's Advice Bureau, this charge should be reasonable and in line with the loss suffered by the business, although excessive charges are common. This isn't a criminal matter despite any impression given to the contrary by the operator.

The operator has no right to recover a parking charge from you without first taking you to court, so if you think there has been a mistake and you shouldn't have been issued a ticket, you may wish to dispute the charge with the parking company as soon as possible. You should ask them to provide proof of their case against you. If you fail to reach an agreement with them, then, as with all civil matters, it is up to the parking company to prove their case in court, but it is advisable to seek advice from the Citizens Advice Bureau or a solicitor before things get to this stage. Remember that the parking operator has to prove its case on the balance of probabilities.

It is also important to note that, as things currently stand, the driver of the vehicle is the only person who can enter into a contract with the landowner. Therefore if you were not the person driving you may wish to inform the parking company of this straight away. Just because you are the registered keeper of the car, you are under no legal obligation to provide the parking operator with any further information, as you would be with the police. In particular you do not have to identify the driver or supply his or her name and address.

Indeed if you are certain that you have not parked in contravention of the rules of the car park, you do not have to contact the parking company if you do not wish to do so as the obligation is on the parking company to prove its case. However you should let them know that you contest the notice as if not, you can expect a series of letters from the company itself, debt collectors and solicitors, all warning of court action. However, the reality is that extremely few cases ever reach court because of the difficulties the private company has in proving its case. Consequently, the letters usually stop. Even if a case does reach court, the company may have trouble convincing a judge that the charge is fair.

Appeals

Finally, there is no independent appeals process for charges issued by private parking companies, but the British Parking Association, the trade body representing the private parking industry, does set out clear guidelines which state that an appeals process must be put in place by the company, details of which must be included on the charge notices they send out.

If you feel your appeal has not been considered fairly, or hasn't been acknowledged, make sure you seek legal advice before the case progresses further. Watch out for so called appeals procedures which require you to pay the full amount claimed up front before exercising a right of appeal.

[Busman]

Do we think that Lozz's interesting peice is still the case after the recent law change?

[V6Exec]

BUt, as I understand it, the "breach" of contract is a failure to pay the cost of the parking, and the maximum "loss" that can be sought in court would be just the cost of the parking itself. If the carpark is £5/hour and you stay for 30minutes then the revenue they have lost can be no more than either £2.50 for the part hour or £5 if they charge by the hour. Of course if the carpark is not full then perhaps you could argue that they lost nothing anyway as you did not prevent another potential user using that space.

[StevieboyTD]

BUt, as I understand it, the "breach" of contract is a failure to pay the cost of the parking, and the maximum "loss" that can be sought in court would be just the cost of the parking itself. If the carpark is £5/hour and you stay for 30minutes then the revenue they have lost can be no more than either £2.50 for the part hour or £5 if they charge by the hour. Of course if the carpark is not full then perhaps you could argue that they lost nothing anyway as you did not prevent another potential user using that space.

That was before the law changed and the "fines" were bluff and bluster, now they can legally submit the parking charge to the driver/keeper.

Gov. totally screwed it up.

[rwb]

The law in question is the somewhat perversely entitled Protection of Freedoms act 2012.

Part 3 Chapter 2 (Vehicles left on land) includes the clamping ban, and says

56 Recovery of unpaid parking charges
Schedule 4 (which makes provision for the recovery of unpaid parking charges from the keeper or hirer of a vehicle in certain circumstances) has effect.

The Schedule 4 is in the same document is rather lengthy...

(However, the principle of recovery only of 'unpaid charges' (rather than claims for punitive 'damages' payments) seems still to hold, and I cannot yet see how it would have any bearing on the assessment of contract terms as being unfair.)

[Welly]

I can't advise either way on this but I just wanted to to say Hi to Frank

Not heard from you for ages and yet you used to on here a lot.

Hope you are keeping well anyway.

[benczuk]

I would question the legality of fining you in a 'free' car park because you didn't immediately go into the shopping center. They surely have to prove that you never went into the shopping center EVER, you may have wandered off in the opposite direction to make a mobile phone call with good signal ;) . Also their signage would need to be clear to the average idiot, which I cant see them being able to achieve either.

As the car park is 'free' can they actually fine you when there is no perceivable financial loss? (apart from perhaps the fact someone else couldn't use that spot)

no actual legal knowledge, just thoughts from my head.

[steve_earwig]

I can't advise either way on this but I just wanted to to say Hi to Frank

Not heard from you for ages and yet you used to on here a lot.

Hope you are keeping well anyway.

Ditto I'd gone so far as to see you hadn't logged in for a couple of weeks and checked your posts for any mentions of holidays or whatever. Yes, I do a lot of worrying

[DaiRees]

I would question the legality of fining you in a 'free' car park because you didn't immediately go into the shopping center. They surely have to prove that you never went into the shopping center EVER, you may have wandered off in the opposite direction to make a mobile phone call with good signal ;) . Also their signage would need to be clear to the average idiot, which I cant see them being able to achieve either.

As the car park is 'free' can they actually fine you when there is no perceivable financial loss? (apart from perhaps the fact someone else couldn't use that spot)

no actual legal knowledge, just thoughts from my head.

That's a very good point. I often park in the free supermarket car park to go into town, but I figure that barely a day goes by when either the wife or I don't go into Tesco so they take enough cash off us... 95% of the times I go into town I go into Tesco anyway, even if I don't buy anything, I like to have a look for bargains in the electrical / entertainment / clothing sections. I've never had a problem, but that opens up a whole new can of worms, even if you're visiting their shops do you actually have to make a purchase to be eligible to use their car park? What if you're just browsing, or they haven't got what you want in stock?

Is there a time limit stated for the car park Frank? If so I can't see how they could have possibly issued the fine until that time had expired. I'd be tempted to write to them stating that you had to go and attend to some business first but that you visited the shopping centre on the way back to the car.

The whole thing stinks a bit mate!

Related one liner: I came back to the car the other day and there was a sticker on the window saying "Parking Fine", I knew I'd done a good job of getting it in that space but it was nice of them to notice.

[Doggy]

This may help.....

Some years ago a number of us met up at the A14/A605 services at Thrapston, leaving a couple of cars there in the Little Chef/Thief car park and travelling to a training course in Manchester, in the Vectra 'pool shed'. They issued fixed-penalty notices, but later retracted them when we produced a receipt for several meals at a different restaurant on the same day, i.e. we proved we had used one of their car parks legitimately and there are effectively no limits on parking time or number of spaces used.

TBH it was a gem of a letter we sent them, (wish I'd kept a copy) and I guess we gave them an honourable way out while making it more hassle to pursue than abandon their claim.

[scotty73]

Related one liner: I came back to the car the other day and there was a sticker on the window saying "Parking Fine", I knew I'd done a good job of getting it in that space but it was nice of them to notice.

i often use the Merthyr Tesco car park to go into town but i don't ever remember a time that i didn't end up in Tesco aswell and tbh i can't see how they could prove otherwise. they will probably start charging and you get the money back if you spend in Tesco.
Another one I've used a lot in the past is Aldi Brecon but again i nearly always end up in the store.. I do remember someone saying they got a £50 fine for doing just that a few years back in that car park though.

[DaiRees]

I do remember someone saying they got a £50 fine for doing just that a few years back in that car park though.

Fek me, if Tesco fined us £50 they'd lose that in revenue in the first few days when the whole family buggered off to Asda

[scotty73]

I do remember someone saying they got a £50 fine for doing just that a few years back in that car park though.

Fek me, if Tesco fined us £50 they'd lose that in revenue in the first few days when the whole family buggered off to Asda

I normally use Asda with it being closer i only ever go into town when i need something for my home brew from wilko

One place i really want to boycot is B&Q Merthyr but then I'd have nowhere to get my diy stuff they got us over a barrel.

[DaiRees]

One place i really want to boycot is B&Q Merthyr but then I'd have nowhere to get my diy stuff they got us over a barrel.

Ah see, there's a Screwfix near work, so B&Q is being used less and less by my household

[scotty73]

One place i really want to boycot is B&Q Merthyr but then I'd have nowhere to get my diy stuff they got us over a barrel.

Ah see, there's a Screwfix near work, so B&Q is being used less and less by my household

I've noticed on my travels there's a few of them popping up which one would that be?