Peugeot 406 (D9) - Water in Auto Gearbox

[carz]

I drive a year 2002 Peugeot 406 (D9), with EW10J4 2.0L petrol engine with the AL4 Auto Gearbox, with 70,000km mileage.

The gearbox has lately been slipping when cold and jerks. About 20,000km ago, the workshop has changed the Pressure Regulator Solenoids to the Borg Warner type.

Meanwhile I have been complaining about very slight coolant loss, which they could not trace to any external leaks despite a pressure test.

I sent the car to the authorised workshop, and the opened the valvebody cover and discovered thick whitish paste which they told me indicated water in the Transmission Fluid.

I believe that the coolant may have leaked into the gearbox ATF throught the Heat Exchanger, but the Workshop Manager thinks otherwise. He blaimed it on a flood and said that the flood water could have gone in through the breather hold on the gearbox, and refused my warranty claims.

I would like to know :-
1) if the Leak of Coolant to the ATF through the Heat Exchanger is a COMMON PROBLEM. 2) The workshop will be opening the Heat Exchanger to examine it tomorrow....can someone tell me what to look for that is evidence of the cause of the leak ?
3) Did Peugeot do a recall for this problem, and if so, can you point me to some evidence of a recall ?

[Tiny Tim]

I'd be asking for the manager to prove the flood personally.

Oh


whats that?



he cant?



Job done. Peugeot UK here you come....

[carz]

the Manager is illogical, could not prove flood, or show signs of flood in car. He claims that i could driven the car many kilometers after the flood, and signs are gone.

if this is a common problem, then i can argue my case better.

[steve_earwig]

Peugeot UK here you come....

About 20,000km ago

Where abouts are you Carz?

I don't know that it's a common problem and I can't find a recall (http://www.vosa.gov.uk/vosa/apps/recall ... search.asp) but I reckon this manager's talking out of his tailpipe. Water in gearbox + missing coolant = flood? Arse.

I'm not sure what 'd be looking for, apart from a hole of course. I'd reckon signs of water would be a good start but I'm not sure if you can see inside it to check for a split seam etc. Pressure test it?

Anyway, I reckon you should complain to Peugeot directly and take your custom elsewhere!! You really want this clod's troops messing with your motor??

[jameslxdt]

i used to see this problem a hell of a lot on the Volvo 940 and 960 when i used to work for volvo, the gearbox can usually be saved after about 6 hours of flushing with fresh ATF, but are known to fail not long after, i dont know on the 406 though, but i do know that the AL4 box is bloody awful, and they have just gone back order again till mid december, thats how often they fail, you can take the heat exchanger out and have it inspected to see if its leaking under pressure, but i am sure this will be the problem

[carz]

I am from Malaysia.

The workshop is the distributor workshop (HQ) and the only one who can authorised warranty claims. Their dealer workshops have to get their authorisations, which gets you back to square one.

Today they got authorisation from Peugeot Technical Platform to take out the Heat Exchanger and I was there to see. They took some photo to send back to Peugeot Platform. The Manager is unable to explain to me how they intent to test the Heat Exchanger for leaks. I looked at the device and a visual check will definitely not show anything.

He refused my suggestion that it be left connected to the coolant system (with Heat Exchanged removed from gearbox body), and a Coolant pressure test be done to determine leak. Is this a a good test and definitive test of a leak ?

Does water in Transmission Fluid damage the Torque Converter friction plates too?

If confirm Warrantible, what is Peugeot standard procedure ? Is it reasonable to insist that they replace the Torque converter together with the gearbox ?

[carz]

Looks like I would have to take this up with the Consumer's Tribunal as both the distributor and Peugeot Asean office are not helpful at all.

Before my warranty ended, I sent the car in for my last warranty service. Among them I complained about about slight 1st gear jerks (which was not present before), and again I complained about the slow coolant loss that I have. They dismissed it as nothing, and they said that they did not find any "error codes" upon PPS electronic diagnosis.

I got the car returned, and I did not have time to follow up. About 2 months later the snow & sports finally turned on. By then they claimed that my WARRANTY is already over.

I am sure that the gearbox was already showing signs of problems before the warranty ended, but it is their word against mine. It is also their argument that since the PPS electronic diagnosis did not show up any error, they cannot do anything then (before warranty ended)

When I sent the car in after the "snow and sports" lights turned on, it was then that they opened the Valve Body cover and discovered white paste (present of water). They said water ingress is external and blaimed it on the car being driven through a flood.

Do you guys out there think I have a VALID CASE ? WHAT should I do and how do I argue my case in the Tribunal ? Are there any legal minds out there, who can give some advise ?

I did some digging and found this:-
1) Workshop claimed "The heat exchanger is in good condition and also understands from technical cell that this type is a improved version", but this is incorrect. They also did not do any leak tests on the Heat Exchanger, yet they arrived at the conclusion that it is OK.

I found out that the Heat Exchanger (Distrib Chamber) on my car has part number 2275.47. This has been superceded by part number 2275.59. Does anyone has access to information on why the part has been superceded ??

2) Found out Peugeot Technical documents that states that there is a defect in the AL4 gearbox Breather Plug (Snifting Valve) PN 2268-20. According to the document, if you drive through a puddle of water or flood of 7cm in height at between 10 to 80 km/hr, it will cause water to enter the gearbox through the Breather Plug. This will cause Delay in engaging 1st gear, or shock when changing gear. The document says that 1 draining or several of the ATF does not always prove sufficient to regain normal gearbox operation; in the case overhaul or replace gearbox. They have since come out with a new Breather Plug (PN 5126-13) which solved the problem.

Does someone out there who has access to the system to check the gearbox revision on my car if I give you the VIN number ? If so can you send me a email, so I can contact you ?

The workshop refused warranty on 2 grounds, that is, 1) my car is out of warranty 2) the water ingress is external and I have driven the car through a flood. They offered a solution, for which I have to pay for. Flush the gearbox (12 litres), and change the Valve Body, and see if it works. If not then change the gearbox.

[mjb]

Does someone out there who has access to the system to check the gearbox revision on my car if I give you the VIN number ? If so can you send me a email, so I can contact you ?.

Register at http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com/ (it's free) and see viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3809