Front spring failure....... AGAIN!!!!!!!

[puggy]

No you are not welly , i too went out last night to have a listen whilst turning
left and right and stationary (tesco carpark excellent for this ) and with hand
on wood am happy to report all is smooth

[Longintooth]

Still, if there's no way of getting grease in there then there's no way Welton's going to be blowing it out with his washing powder... I mean, power washing

Well not quite steve - The seal is not that effective is what I'm seeing and grit is getting in with just normal throw off the wheels so if pressure washing is used it may force it in more. Trying to repack a component with grease is only effective if there is proper access without pushing muck in as well. In days gone by steering joints were fitted with grease nipples but it was found that some lesser mortals were not wiping the nipple before applying the grease gun and actually forcing grit into the joint - you can work the rest out. These gaiters on CV joints are a typical case of risk and is part of the MOT test since it would allow grit into the joint if broken and the joint can be wrecked if the old grease is not cleaned out before repacking. But as I've stated on other issues you can carry on blissfully if it makes someone happy, using pressure washers to clean the engine down will force water into sensitive electrical plugs - but it looks nice.

[Welly]

I should say that I don't actually blast the hell out of the upper part of the strut mounting with my 'washing powder' but I meant that generally my arches are fairly clean so there's less chance of caked up crap being diluted with tyre spray and sent up in the dark depths of the strut bearing.

My engine bay recieves a manual wipe-down with a rag/autoglym bumper care. There's no way I'd get anything wet in there, I even avoid puddles on the road

I suppose it seems you at least get a warning when the bearings crap out and I suppose too that some cars will never suffer with this when others will

[Welly]

'Tis not done Soops - you haven't had new strut bearings

[SimonTNUK]

I hate to say this, but [Looking round furtively] 106s have this problem[/looking round furtively].
My wifes 106 (diesel) has had these bearings replaced once already and they need replacing again.
When our local friendly mechanic (not the main stealers) did some asking around, he found out that 106s at least are renowned for it.
I didn't ask about 406s, I had a 309 at the time.

[Doggy]

You've got me at it now! Found myself listening carefully / checking for unusual steering behaviour whilst moving various cars & trailer around on the drive now the 206 has been fixed. Definetly heard something between a twang & a clonk reversing on full lock , then realised this was the Citroen

Paranoid - Black Sabbath

Sorry, wrong thread

[Longintooth]

Mmmmm - ask them what they think is actually wrong with the rack and make sure they give you a precise answer before you shell out the cash. Let me look in my crystal ball --- mmmm, it is showing me that your problem is still there after they done the job and mmmm, let me see, oh a new pump is on the horizon.

The top bearing could be intermittent in the early stages as the ball races jump and jostle with the weight shift - but they are on the job, we can only get our handkerchiefs out ready for you. If it helps - mine had a date stamp on it that was 06/99 and mines done 88,000 so my guess is this is a good guide of its life
and with the poor seal design it will become a common issue in all of this age but I suppose it's done well to last 8 years.

[puggy]

some good news at last supa, and a light at the end of the tunnel

[steve_earwig]

I bleedin' well hope so, your car troubles are getting to that "hide behind sofa 'cos the daleks are coming" stage.

Damper? I think there's a ram wot does the power assisting stuff. I hope the fault shows up, maybe if it doesn't you should still think about having him strip it out while it's half way there and get these other bods to test it.

[DaiRees]

It's an object lesson in how crap some garages are and how they like to take us for a ride, and how we all need to know tradesman we can trust. Not just mechanics, but plumbers, builders, electricians.... the lot!

Glad you managed to get to speak to Dave before the weekend Soops, sounds like he's the man to sort it out...

[Longintooth]

Dear me, Before doing anything they should lift the bonnet, start engine and observe the way the upper mounting twists to get an idea what goes on when the steering is turned - it is quite crude even when a new bush/bearing is fitted will mislead anyone feeling for stiffness. If the twang is heard when reversing in a tight turn then that confirms the bearing is faulty - left or right one. They will not necessarily feel the stiffness in the strut by simply hand turning the strut unless they remove the track rod end to free it up from the rest of the system as he should do. If they do this the strut should turn lock to lock without too much resistance from the spring. Of course they are on the job and they should be competent to eliminate other things - not just swapping stuff willy nilly - changing oil to solve a problem is a clear sign someone is not thinking it through. Also they have to have a clear well thought out reason for changing a Rack not just a guess - excessive play in the Track rod ends and up and down on the rack with play at the steering wheel with someone observing the rack - heavens we are talking elementary checking here - shirt buttons not cash comes into mind.

[rapport25]

Hi Supa, Please dont do anything silly you would be missed. Which reminds me I have never seen a pic of you as welly had mentioned before

Chin up at least you seem to be speaking to someone that seems to have an understanding now!!!!

I have a picture in my mind blonde and busty that is how you described yourself cheer up supa

[Longintooth]

Hi
Bloody hell - have to be precise in what is said. The steering should be rocked with the engine running because there are two valve springs inside the power unit
that can be mistaken for play which is not. Should be checked by gently rocking the steering and should feel nice and firm whilst watching the tyres for movement - there should be none at the tyres and none at the steering wheel.

[jasper5]

I'd just like to add my good wishes.

At last you seem to have someone prepared to look at it who has proper sense!

There is always a system of checking that should be done when checking for such faults as tight steering, first thing is to take off the track rod ends one at a time and work the steering lock to lock, then both at once to check the power steering rack, engine running and then off.

Each strut should be checked in turn for tightness, then if nothing is found, removal of the driveshaft and checks performed on that.

My most important question would be this.....has the tight steering fault occurred only after the new springs were fitted, or was this fault there before?

If it has occurred since the job was done, the answer lies with the fitting of the new springs, something has not been done correctly, something has not been spotted that should have been noticed, or damage has allegedly been done by the person fitting the new parts.

If you were anywhere near where I live, I would happily check things out free of charge.

Just a final note....my brother rang me from Leeds earlier, his 1997 406 has just broken a front drivers side spring....the bottom coil has broken causing the spring to come down onto his driveshaft!

[Longintooth]

When they changed the springs they probably just gave the bearing a cursory twirl but that would not reveal the fault - the bearing balls still turn but if the thing is looked at closely it can be seen that the outer casing of the bearing is contacting the lower plate and jambing the whole strut because the weight is only taken on half the bearing it causes a valley in the ball track which can easily be overlooked. If the top bush is observed in situ it can be seen how uneven the rotation is through the rubber mounting. I knew about this from checking a mates and as soon as it occurred on mine this week I acted - rather not risk a spring fracture and CV damage not to mention if it occurred at 70mph on the motorway overtaking a truck or something - yuk.