110HDI Estate: Non Starter (LP fuel Pump) (solved)

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110HDI Estate: Non Starter (LP fuel Pump) (solved)

Post by Springnuts »

Hi all,

Greetings from the North Devon coast. 8) I would be grateful for any hints, advice or suggestions. I am away from home (Plymouth) at the moment and have no tools here with me: I can work on the car this weekend.

A couple of weeks ago I jumped into the car (it is a D9 btw), threw the key into the ignition and turned it to find that the engine security light (a key in a box symbol) came on and the car would not start. It cranked over fine, but did not start. I was aware that I hadn't allowed any time for pre-heating, though I don't think lack of pre-heating was the issue. I removed the key, took a deep breath, reinserted it, turned ignition on, paused, and the car started normally, with no sign of the warning light.

About a week ago the car refused to start first turn of the key. There was no warning light. It started normally on the second turn.

The, on Monday it was a cold, cold morning. -3.5 according to the in-car display at 0730. Turned over normally, no warning lights but no ignition. I tried maybe eight or nine times. I had to leave it then. Today Wednesday at 1200; a warmish spring day and the car started first turn of the key.

I should add that the in-tank life pump makes the right sort of noises when the ignition is turned on.

My chum with the code reader found a key code fault, and believes this is why it would not start on Monday. No error codes related to glow plugs or relay. I am doubtful that the key code is related to non-starting on Monday as there was no dashboard warning light illuminated. I read a thread here about the code pick-up on the key barrel taking a little time to read the key, and wonder if that might have been the case on the first failure to start, a couple of weeks ago.

Question 1
: I wonder, does the system actually monitor the health of the glow plug / relay? Perhaps there never would be fault codes for these items!

Question 2: Should I change the key battery in any case? I guess it is the original battery.

My diagnostic plan is:
1) Check power is reaching the glow plugs.
2) Check resistance of each individual glow plug (0.5 ohm I read on another post is normal)
3) ... er, that's it.

Any suggestions, hints and tips would be hugely welcome. :D

Regards

Springnuts
Last edited by Springnuts on Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:47 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 406 Exec 110HDI, 2000, 206k miles - (Cold?) starting pro

Post by Springnuts »

... I take it all back.

Car behaved OK yesterday and got me back to Plymouth :D . Won't start today :cry: ; it is +5. There is however no noise from the in tank pump :x ... .
Fortunately it is an estate so easy to get to the pump; I will do a couple more checks then look to change it.

Regards

Springnuts
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Re: 406 Exec 110HDI, 2000, 206k miles - (Cold?) starting pro

Post by steve_earwig »

Looked rather confusing there so I hope you've got it sussed now :oops:
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Re: 406 Exec 110HDI, 2000, 206k miles - (Cold?) starting pro

Post by Springnuts »

Thanks Steve - yes, confused is what I frequently am!

To be fair there was a somewhat loud graunching noise when putting the ignition on before - possible sign of impending pump failure :?: . I now get only a very faint humming from somewhere like a fan starting up - it happens whether or not the pump is connected, so is clearly not the pump! Pumps are not in stock anywhere locally, but ebay for £80 all in (PEUGEOT 206 406 2.0Hdi Diesel Fuel Pump FP5315) seems a bargain; I can get a secondhand one down the road for £40 which doesn't sound worth it. The securing ring looks hard to shift: access v poor - I will check I can get it shifted before ordering the part.

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Re: 406 Exec 110HDI, 2000, 206k miles - (Cold?) starting pro

Post by DiscoPol »

Hi M8,

The locking ring can be slowly drifted off with a solid bar used as a drift, if its cold where you are it might be worth just getting some ambient heat on the ring first to help loosen (expand) it, i did mine a while ago and it was minus 5 outside so i ran a cable outside and pointed a fan heater at the pump access hole under the backseat for about 15 mins first, gave me some warmth to work in and really helped loosen the ring.

Its a slow process, maybe moving only 10 mm per hit but at least it comes off eventually and you dont need the pug tool which im sure would cost a fortune.

I have heard that you can use a strap wrench or filter chain wrench to get the locking ring off aswell.

Good luck, have you tried the gentle tapping of the centre of the pump??
it may bring it back to life, but again only for a short time :(

HTH Dan
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Re: 406 Exec 110HDI, 2000, 206k miles - (Cold?) starting pro

Post by Welly »

Here's the proper tool type thing for £11.00....

http://www.ccw-tools.com/product.asp?st ... P_ID=22287

It must fit most retainer rings I think.
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Re: 406 Exec 110HDI, 2000, 206k miles - (Cold?) starting pro

Post by DiscoPol »

Proper Tool :? :? ,

Pah thats for pussies, hit it with stuff, it worked for me :P :P
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Re: 406 Exec 110HDI, 2000, 206k miles - (Cold?) starting pro

Post by Doggy »

7403406 wrote:Proper Tool :? :? ,

Pah thats for pussies,
bit of a common thread here?
2002 HDi 2.2 Exec Estate, (2008-12) (wonderful)
2003 HDi 2.2 6-speed Exec Estate (2012-19) (also a gem)
2009 Citroen C5 2.0 HDi VTR+ Estate (godawful heap)
2008 BMW E91 330i touring (great fun - murdered by a reversing SUV)
2007 BMW E91 325i touring (slower smoother quieter)
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Re: 406 Exec 110HDI, 2000, 206k miles - (Cold?) starting pro

Post by Springnuts »

Thanks for the hints!

I put a voltmeter on the wiring loom connector and I get 12v (well, 11.1v) when the ignition comes on: after a few seconds it drops to 1.6 or so. Sounds normal-ish. I will have a go at making a plywood version of the special tool :idea: - am just about to start on a template.

(later) ... ok not plywood but 3/4 inch plank ... the ring has started to move. I don't want to go any further until the new pump arrives early next week, but I am reasonably happy that it will be straightforward. Famous last words :roll: Things that may go wrong .... wrong pump arrives; securing ring shatters; seal is perished; pump is the right pump but just 1mm bigger/smaller then the supposedly identical one it is replacing; pump fits but doesn't work; tank level sender gets knocked off ...

Regards

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Re: 406 Exec 110HDI, 2000, 206k miles - (Cold?) starting pro

Post by Springnuts »

OK it's done; back on the road. Far too embarrassed to give the whole story, :oops: but the problem was indeed the LP pump. Removal was interesting: the estate has an access hole which is nearly but not quite big enough to get the pump through - and no sign of a riveted panel that can be removed. A bit of work with tin snips was my solution: not pretty but worked. Staff Solution is presumably to remove the tank? Used wooden drifts rather than metal on the securing ring. Anyway, back on the road, poorer but a little wiser.

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Re: 110HDI Estate: Non Starter (LP fuel Pump) (solved)

Post by steve_earwig »

Glad you got it sorted, sounds like a real pain (sooo not looking forward to doing mine when it eventually dies). So, what's this embarrassing story? We all make booboos and I know I've posted some of mine (as an example to the young :cheesy: )
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Re: 110HDI Estate: Non Starter (LP fuel Pump) (solved)

Post by puggy »

Yes the full story please !! :P When i did mine i slightly bent the edge of the access hole
upwards then used a rubber hammer and a flat to beat it back into shape :)
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Re: 110HDI Estate: Non Starter (LP fuel Pump) (solved)

Post by Springnuts »

OK - I only, while knocking the securing ring back round, smashed off the outlet spigot on the new pump (which was compatible, but not identical, so I couldn't transplant the original top plate) ... so ended up with the scrappy version anyway! :cry:

Whole job still less than the cost of the pump from the Main Stealer however :)

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Re: 110HDI Estate: Non Starter (LP fuel Pump) (solved)

Post by puggy »

See that didn't hurt , and it all came right in the end :twisted: :P :P
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Re: 110HDI Estate: Non Starter (LP fuel Pump) (solved)

Post by steve_earwig »

Gah! :( SO that was 80 quid down the drain :cry: :cry: I think I'll be enquiring about the tool...
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