engine mount fault, which one?

[rswspeed1]

ive got a 1996 406 2.0 estate and the vibration i get from starting off is getting really bad now + when changing gears.
a previous member suggested it will be a top engine mount thats knackered, ive checked the top ones and they seem fine not much movent etc but i havent checked the bottom one yet if it is this how much of a job is it to change?
im not a mechanic at all but done most things on my previous cars myself gearbox clutch change etc, ive tried to search it on here but cant seem to get the right info
can anyone help me?
thanks

[DiscoPol]

Hi there,

would have thought it was more than likely the bottom mount as thats the one that is always prone to go on the 406, and its the one that then allows the movement of the engine under load and there fore the gearbox mounts are liable to become goosed, etc etc etc.

get it up on stands and have a poke about under there, its fairly obvious when they have gone or are going and then have a search on here for "replacing bottom engine mount" and there are enought threads to help you out from there.

HTH

P.S welcome on in mate.

[rswspeed1]

thanks for the reply, went to my brothers today and as i was reversing from his drive he told me to stop and said the wheel was moving (not round) but backwards and forwards jacked it up and the bushes on the bottom arm are shot, could this cause so much vibration on starting and changing gears etc, sorry for being so dumb

[poddack]

So far on mine, I have replaced the top and the bottom engine mount which has improved matters no end, I have bought wishbone bushes off ebay for £10, will let you know when I fit them.

[rswspeed1]

ok cheers, but which ones do i buy am i right in saying i need 2 bushes for one wishbone as both have got so much movent in them it shocked me that i didnt notice it before

[sirwiggum]

This is going to sound like a really stupid question. But I haven't got a lot of experience of engine mounts. (oh matron!)

- What are the symptoms of engine mount failure?
- What is the worst case of engine mount failure (ie. engine / belts disintegrate / gearbox linkage breaks etc.?)

A couple of weeks ago my flexi pipe on the exhaust ripped, I got a new flexi + cat at the exhaust place. Ever since then, however, at 1000 and 2000 rpm the car felt like there was a slight blow, and the vibration from this can be felt up the pedal. The exhaust place checked the brackets etc. and said the exhaust was fine.

It may or may not be related, but I was holding it at 1700rpm in the car park, and it felt like it was kangarooing. Fine with a bit more acceleration, just holding at that rpm.

Are these symptoms of engine mount failure?

[DiscoPol]

Hiya mate,

the flexi replacement is a typical symptom of goosed engine mounts, and it will split the new one in no time at all too, unless you have them replaced(the mounts) and as the flexi and cat arent cheap thats something you want to avoid

the kangaroo is is also quite a common symptom too from what i can remember, seriously have a look underneath the engine towards the back end and you will probably be able to see just how goosed the bottom mount is, the top left and right mounts are simple enough to replace yourself but the lower mount needs the at least one if not both drive shafts removing to replace, or you can get just the rubber bushing but again it needs machine pressing back into place so probably best if you ask a garage how much for the job.

all this info is only gathered from reading about similar symptoms on here,thinking about doing the job on my 406 and knowing that my mounts are totally ruined and having the same problems you are having so please dont take it as gospel but im sure that somebody else with a bit more technical knowledge will b e along soon enough.

[sirwiggum]

Thanks for the advice.

Sounds like a £££ey job!

[mjb]

seriously have a look underneath the engine towards the back end and you will probably be able to see just how goosed the bottom mount is,

Mounts can often break down inside, leaving the outside looking perfectly good. Sometimes it's also impossible to tell if a mount is knackered without putting a video recording camera under the bonnet of a car and then driving it

the lower mount needs the at least one if not both drive shafts removing to replace, or you can get just the rubber bushing but again it needs machine pressing back into place so probably best if you ask a garage how much for the job.

The lower mount in its entirety needs ONE driveshaft removing, which is a pain to do. However it may be possible to acquire a bush separately for about £15, which depending on the type might be replaceable without removing anything other than the bolt going through it.

Having said that, the top mount is easy to change and is by far the most common failure

[DiscoPol]

Cheers for the clarification MJB,

see i told you somebody with a bit more knowledge would be along soon

as for the lower mount mine is visibly screwed, and when the car is up on stands and nice and secure, if you try just pushing the engine about forward to back, you can see just how knackered the lower mount is (please note if the car falls on you or comes loose, i didnt advise this action just stating what mine does ) but as Matt (MJB) says the top mount is an easy job and doesnt require the garage so try that first and see if that improves things, but by the sound of it you have a few mounts and bushes that need replacing, so do all you can yourself and then see where you are at with it before involving the *ahem professionals and running up a big bill.

my only concern would be the flexi and cat you just paid good money for being ruined if you leave it too long, the engine in mine moves a good 40-50 mm front to back when under load or just revved to freely so you can see why the flexi gives up

have you tried pushing the top of the engine when its switched off and sat on the ground just to see how much movement you can create?

keep us informed how you go with this as it sounds very familiar to me and I would like to know what the outcome is and roughly what its going to cost you to sort out back in good old Blighty, things are a bit different over here in Poland and labour is much cheaper and if i do decide to get the job done im just gonna stick mine in the local garage and let them get on with it, or more likely im not going to do anything about it and just flog her on when the time comes and finances allow for me to get my new toy

[sirwiggum]

She is in getting the handbrake sorted (another £300). Will rock the engine later and see what the play is like.

Don't want to buy a new cat every month.

Going to sell her as I am fed up of constantly having to spend hundreds on it every month.

[sirwiggum]

If I give the engine a good push there is some movement, but I'm not sure what "normal" movement should be when giving an engine a good shove.