90HP DW10TD Timing adjustment

[TrevH]

Hi there

Just wondered if someone could answer a quick one. Just changed timing belt, waterpump etc on the above. Going by good old Haynes there are 3 bolts that are lossened on the camshaft pully to allow some degree of movement to align the timing locking bolts. On my model...the camshaft just has one bolt in the centre....

I was just wondering how you would go about alignment in this model....I was in a bit of a rush putting everything back together and did not have time to investigate properly.. The car runs fine...but it is a slight bit sluggish...and only since the belt was changed (was never a flier anyway with only 90hp )

I was going to leave it into a diesel expert to set up the timing...they wanted about £100 but thought after doing so much work changing everything...I may as well set it up myself....

Any advice would be great and thanks in advance....

Thanks

[teamster1975]

Hi Trev!
Sorry I don't know the Hdi engine but I'm sure someone will be along with the answer!

[jasper5]

Hi Trev, the Haynes manual is wrong There never has been those bolts and slots. Autodata also shows these slots and bolts, they are wrong as well

Did you lock the crankshaft or mark the position of the crank pulley where the belt goes around? Did you slacken the bolt in the camshaft, or did you lock it using the bolt hole through the middle of the camshaft pulley?

To set the timing, you need to firstly turn the crank slowly until the hole through the camshaft (about 8mm diameter) is positioned about 8 o'clock, then push an 8mm bolt through the camshaft hole and wiggle the camshaft pulley until the bolt slides into the cylinder head, then you need to lock the crank by finding the timing hole through the block under the starter motor, some of these have a small hole under the starter, but others have a hole through the tin plate that fastens over the flywheel. (I never use these holes, I prefer to mark the pulleys with tipex or white paint), this makes it much easier.

If you didn't mark the crank pulley or fit a timing pin in the crank, you will need to find TDC.

If you unscrewed the camshaft bolt to align the belt, you will have great difficulty setting the timing, unless you marked or know how much you turned it and in which direction.

I urge anyone replacing their timing belt, to mark all the pulleys before you remove the timing belt!!!

[Doggy]

My Xsara HDi 90, (July 1999, therefore an early Hdi - don't know if that's significant), most definetely did have the bolts & the slots exactly as the Haynes book. My local independent changed the belt, pulleys water pump etc. insisted there was no adjustment, (despite me showing him). Result - ran OK, but whined in a classical belt too tight manner. Got him to re-check the tension, insisted it was OK. (In fact it was OK from cam pulley to HP pump to crank and like a bowstring from crank to camshaft).
To cut a long story short, I changed to damned thing myself two months later - set it according to Haynes & bingo, no more noise. I swapped the belt & pulleys again and took a chance on the water pump.

In the intervening time I had taken the car to Luxembourg & Germany & shelled out for European breakdown cover cos I didn't trust it. As I was planning the summer trip to Biarritz, I decided it'd cheaper to do the job properly rather than worry about it any longer. First Citreon or Peugeot I'd ever done, took me about 5 hours as I'm not the world's quickest, but I felt a damned sight better knowing I wasn't driving a timebomb any longer. Still fine 50,000 miles on.

[TrevH]

Thanks Dogslife....
I know there is adjustment on the timing belt...as in the rollers... it was just some for of adjustment in the camshaft pulley to precisely line up the timing holes...just read somewhere else that this is not that overly crucial as the ECU will make some adjustment.... seems to be so many theories around...starting to think I might have exacerated a bad connection somewhere on the ECU or a sensor somewhere...might go out and do some disconnecting and reconnecting to see if anything changes.....

Unless anyone else has any ideas


Thanks

[jasper5]

Those three holes in the camshaft pulley are nothing to do with the timing, they are only there to help you fit the belt, the camshaft is locked with the timing pin (bolt).
The tensioning is only done with the tensioner.
These three holes may be fitted to the Citroen version of the HDi, but they most definitely are not fitted to any Puegeot HDi that I have ever done, I have done more than fifty of these timing belt jobs.

Trev, did you undo the camshaft nut to help you fit the belt? If so, then you almost certainly moved the camshaft and altered the timing, having said that, if the timing is wrong, the car will be bad to start and have a stalling problem as well being sluggish.

If you didn't undo the camshaft nut and kept the timing pins in place, then you will not have moved the timing.

[TrevH]

Thank you Jasper...would buy you a pint if you were closer

It was just a thought...and I know the holes were lined up...or as best could....I suppose the amount of teeth on the belt between the HP pump and the camshaft pretty much restricts how much it can be off.

Will have a little look around a few other things.... just a bit of a coincidence that the performance went downjust after doing that. Could maybe be a bit of a dodgy connection that just happened to get worse with all the moving around near the ECU box etc. Maybe grasping straws here...but will keep you all updated if there is some miraculous recovery<S>

Anyway...Jasper....is there any way of the timing being even the slightest bit out on that engine...or is simply lock both the flywheel and cam..and that should be it.... starting to think of things like resetting the ECU if it was maybe used to some setting previous......think thats just my imagination going into overdrive all the same.....

The only other thing which I think it could be is maybe the fuel filter needs changed.... and to be honest it does feel a bit like a fuel starvation problem a bit......as in a bit dead till you floor the pedal and then it is away....I was just not sure if that was maybe the ECU working with the throttle potentiometer.....dotn know enough about the various sensors and role they play.....

Anyway....thanks for taking the time to help

Cheers

[jasper5]

I think the simple answer is to check the timing again, I know it's a pain, but at least you can eliminate it.

One thing to look at, at the crank pulley, does your crank pulley move on the keyway? Some of these have a wider slot where the key is fitted enabling the bottom timing gear to move, this is one reason that I reccomend marking the position of all the pulleys, including the position of the bottom cog in relation to the keyway, even though the flywheel may be locked, the bottom cog can move about a tooth.

The early engines had to have the injection pump locked, I always mark the position of the injection pump though I'm sure on the HDi that it doesn't matter.

If you are going to check it again, lock the flywheel, take off the bottom pulley and the casings,gently move the cam pulley with a spanner towards the windscreen until there is tension on the belt from the injection pump side, then try to fit the timing pin in the camshaft hole, if it fits, the timing is ok....then check the tension again....it's possible, hopefully not a problem from your point of view, that the belt was too slack and the belt jumped a tooth.

[TrevH]

Oh dear......either a very silly boy or a bit of a coincidence...

The above problem now solved<S>.....after limping home from Manchester airport at max 65mph. It was only the next day that I noticed the accelerator pedal seemed a tad low...as in near to the carpet....had been ok up to now. After having a quick look at where the cable attaches to the quandrant which houses the potentiometer...noticed that the adjuster had seemed to have slipped in. I dont know what was there before...as in a captive plasic nut....but a quick cable tie to hold it back temporarily and take up the tension done the trick.

Just hard to believe that this gave up at the same time as I changed the belt...... unless it got knocked when I was around that side of the engine<S>There was no obvious change in the acc pedal after it. The car now drives perfectly...and in fact ...in the four years or so I have had it....it absolutely flies along....a lot more power and torque than was ever there.

So bottom line...happy teddy here..... and just shows....check the bleedin obvious.... the fuel filter was next on the list to change as I was sure that it was a fuel starvation problem...

Thanks to all that sent me suggestions and help...really is appreciated....

cheers

[Captain Jack]

Hah, it's always the simplest of things (well, not *always*, but...). There's a metail spring clip holding the cable in, which is very flimsy and easy to lose. A zip tie should be fine though.

I miss my 2.1...