Dead 407 :-(

[supafrisk]

Yep, got 2 missed calls and a text yesterday to tell me "Car's gone bang, won't go above 2mph"
I won't embarrass him on here by mentioning how much oil was in the car
I dragged the mechanic out for a tow back and basically, the turbo has failed at under 100k.
Apparently this is what happens when you don't change the oil and filter regularly and TOP IT UP
Suffice to say the mechanic started taking bits off yesterday and the whole oil system is crudded up with something that has the same viscosity as peanut butter.
So I am left with the dilemma.. recon turbo (£450), scrappy bodge (£150-250)or turbo repair kit (£40-80).
Got enough crap on my plate without this going on.
BTW when I rang a few turbo specialists they told me they no longer carried the turbo for the 1.6 hdi peugeot engine (also currently in 1.6 ford focuses, 1.8 fords and the citroen). When I enquired why I was told because the crappy engines cause the turbos to fail early. One particular place, turbo technics in Northants told me the reason why they no longer stock them is because they supply to Northamptonshire Police, who have a extensive fleet of the things. Apparently the turbos were not lasting 20K and the Police accused them of supplying shoddy turbos. He said "the engine completely wipes out the turbos, my best advice to you would be to flog it on quick and avoid the 1.6 HDi engine like the plague"

[Welly]

I think we can blame cheap low sulphur diesel and overly-extended oil changes mostly.

(nice to hear from you again, what motor are you running?)

[supafrisk]

A passat. With 444,000 on the clock
I've nicked it til the insurers play fair and send me some bl00dy money.
It was a bit of a dog but it drives lovely now that the top arm is actually attached to the car and the shocks no longer enable you to pick up divots. Now working on the headlamp connectors that have magically soldered themselves to the bulb pins , trying to get a new carpet as this one puts a worn out pug carpet in the shade... rips are us lol.
Then got to sort out the lack of power and it will be as good as new PMSL
Still, I shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth and all that....

[Welly]

Blimey, a raggedy Passat. Good mileage from it though, quite impressive

[jasper5]

Yep, got 2 missed calls and a text yesterday to tell me "Car's gone bang, won't go above 2mph"
I won't embarrass him on here by mentioning how much oil was in the car
I dragged the mechanic out for a tow back and basically, the turbo has failed at under 100k.
Apparently this is what happens when you don't change the oil and filter regularly and TOP IT UP
Suffice to say the mechanic started taking bits off yesterday and the whole oil system is crudded up with something that has the same viscosity as peanut butter.
So I am left with the dilemma.. recon turbo (£450), scrappy bodge (£150-250)or turbo repair kit (£40-80).
Got enough crap on my plate without this going on.
BTW when I rang a few turbo specialists they told me they no longer carried the turbo for the 1.6 hdi peugeot engine (also currently in 1.6 ford focuses, 1.8 fords and the citroen). When I enquired why I was told because the crappy engines cause the turbos to fail early. One particular place, turbo technics in Northants told me the reason why they no longer stock them is because they supply to Northamptonshire Police, who have a extensive fleet of the things. Apparently the turbos were not lasting 20K and the Police accused them of supplying shoddy turbos. He said "the engine completely wipes out the turbos, my best advice to you would be to flog it on quick and avoid the 1.6 HDi engine like the plague"

Not good

[sirwiggum]

This is a worry with a small capacity diesel (or even now petrol ) engine in a fairly big car like a 407 is that the turbo is going to get dogs abuse!

[trem1]

bet he's been using the wrong oil in it,that'll be why the engine looks like its got peanut butter in there,on another pug forum im on there loads of very reliable 1.6's and i dont think ive heard of a turbo going wrong on ANY variation of the 407..........like i say bet its had the wrong oil in

[steve_earwig]

[sirwiggum]

Haha v good.

Diesels were originally designed to be run *on* peanut oil, not *with* peanut oil!

[turbolag]

One particular place, turbo technics in Northants told me the reason why they no longer stock them is because they supply to Northamptonshire Police, who have a extensive fleet of the things.

Er, I work for NORPOL and can confirm our fleet is largely Foci with the same motor, but they've been resoundingly tough, especially considering they get thrashed to the redline from stone cold, and are never allowed to spool down or idle before parking up. The tales of them failing in 20k miles is utter tosh. They've usually hit 110k miles well within 2 years and are binned before anything major falls off. i'm in the workshop a lot cos as an ex Poxhall techie they're often picking my brains over something.

There is an issue with the tubbies on the earlier DV6TED4 units and the Euro IV versions of the DV6 in 206s, 307s and older 407s. However, this was the old Garret GT1544V blower which is being slowly dropped, starting with the 308 which was the first to use the more robust GT15V when it started production in 2007. The 407 and 207 are/were supposed to be getting it too, but I dunno the switchover dates or model years.

That said, it's still a small hardworking unit with complex variable vane internals, so they're sensitive to maintenance - I'm mega anal about quality oil in my 308 and stick religiously to the service intervals.

Some 307s and 206s with this engine used the Mitsubishi TDO25 blower, but I've never heard much about them.

BTW, the 1.8 Ford tubby-D is unrelated to the Pug DV6 family, and is a distant descendant of Fords own diesel unit, which was itself a redesign on the venerable old un-turbo'd PSA XuD engine, so it's got adirect linneage of almost 3 decades - it pulls ok, but rattles like Gary Glitters small change at school closing time.

[steve_earwig]

...rattles like Gary Glitters small change at school closing time.

Nice image there, thanks

[supafrisk]

Surprise surprise, turbo's off and it is indeed a Garratt GT1544V

[supafrisk]

Just spoke to Wayne Kerr, the local stealer service manager about whether I could change the turbo to the GT15V and he said no "cos the settings could be wrong and then it wouldn't run right, you have to put the same turbo on that came off", ie the Garratt GT1544V - that's bloody stupid - why would I want to put a turbo on it that's not cut out for the job???
Trem, I know you have said you don't know of any but if you google it there's loads come up on blown tubbies on the 1.6 HDi, I think there's more than a few on Honest John and yes, probably some ARE down to incorrect oil grade but it doesn't detract from what Turbo lag has said about these turbos being renowned for it.

[turbolag]

I don't knoiw aboout renowned, but there's certainly enough to be statistically significant.

The oil is absoultely crucial. The capacity is just over 3.5 litres so changes on time are essential.

Interestingly, Ford always comb the service history and have even been known to send oil off for analysis before paying for warranty repairs. No surprise that a noteworthy number come back as having the wrong oil, and Honest John as even warned owners himself in his column that the correct oil is mandatory to avoid woe. Synthetic 5w/30 is an absolutely essential requirement, and is must be low-ash particulate filter compatible on FAP equipped versions or the FAP life is compromised. These motors are massively sensitive to oil type, as is the EW12 as well.

[turbolag]

PS - provided the later turbo physically fits I personally think it'll work. It has to cope with exactly the same gas flow characteristics as the old one, so I can't see any problem.