New engines are too small

[gumby6371]

Is it just me or are manufacturers asking too much of engines ?
Unlike many members I quite like the looks of the 407 but I'm amazed that pug fit a 1.6 diesel engine in it, surely pushing that engine to 110 BHP is going to drastically reduce it's life ?

I know eco lobbyist are insisting on less emisions etc but isn't it going to be the case that these smaller engines will be thrashed more often making them less eco friendly when the car is scrapped in less than 10 years!

The 1.9td in my 406 has 165,000 miles on it and other than the usual service parts just keeps going, I rarely dip into the turbo around town and she'll run at motorway 'legal' speeds around 2500 RPM.

I'm not saying I never give it the beans and yes I would like MORE POWER !!! but keep on top of normal servicing and I could well get another 100,000 miles out of the engine.

The way I see it pug made a mistake with the 406 diesel, it lasts far too long......now they have to offer stupid deals to get people to buy new cars that will die sooner and keep the cash rolling in !!!

[Welly]

That's an excellent point and one which I have thought about many times.

One answer may lie in the fact that new-era engines don't seem to suffer the wear and tear of old (when was the last time you saw a car with piston ring wear?)......

If you need to make a little engine really strong then you can do (whether they will or not is another matter). I'm not so sure most folk are concerned about longevity any more?

You hear about drivers abuse of their engines and cringe (you wanna see the inappropriate revs my Mrs uses with a cold engine ) I'm an old-skool 'let it warm up' guy but whether it make much difference any more I dunno? maybe technology has written-out some of our old fashioned ideas?

With little engines it's all down to emissions when 'cruising' along. The VAG 1.4TSI puts out about 170 bhp I think, something you'd expect from a 2.0ltr the next stage will be more 3-cylinder engines (god help us all).

I think the core-mechanicals of new engines is mega tough it's all the other crap they strap onto it that lets it down

Let's face it, they won't stop strangling our cars until we all jump on a bus/train and go to work

[CountryPug]

I was thinking this the other day whilst reading an article in autocar about fiats new 2-cylinder engines (I believe they were alot less than 1 litre) which are going in the 500. Now from memory it produced a decent bhp, probably more than my HDi but this is bound to be at very high revs and I can't think 2 cylinders produce much torque The case therefore will be having to thrash them which will send the emissions and noise level up, and the durability and economy down. I guess the point is, they will work great in a little city car that does city speeds and doesnt see the far side of 60mph. Big cars are meant to be relaxing to drive, thats what you pay for. Having to thrash a tiny engine in a big car isn't relaxing at all and therefore somewhat defeats the purpose of a big car in the first place!

It will be interesting to see how engine tech pans out over the next few years. I have a nasty feeling that actual 'driving fans' are in for a raw deal as much of the fun will be taken away. I mean, hasn't it already to an extent?

[FarmerPug]

Purely out of curiosity i went to a toyota dealers to test drive the new auris hybird and it actually is a very relaxed car to drive, there is no noise at low speed and being petrol when the other engine kicks in its impossible to hear. But what is vw at producing so many 2 litre diesels with up so many different power ratings, but 170bhp is that even good its too early to say how long these engines will last but i know on the other hand a friend with a jeep cherokee 4.0 it only has around 180bhp but its engine never gave a minuites trouble

[Doggy]

I'm with you there, always loved the big-engine-small-car concept as it tends to give good performance, economy & longevity, but you've got to admit a powerful TD gives the same mid-range punch as really quick petrol cars.

The VAG 1.4TSI puts out about 170 bhp I think, something you'd expect from a 2.0ltr

One of the guys at work has one of these Seat Bocanegra jobs with this engine - 178BHP / 250 Nm They put this lump in the VW Touran as well. One of the motoring comics rated this as better than the 2.0 TDi for this job! Left me wondering how many 1.4's would still bein fine fettle with 300k on the clock in a few year's time......

All relative I s'pose, the F1 Brabhams used to get 1400 BHP from 1500cc in qualifying trim.

[STALLED]

All relative I s'pose, the F1 Brabhams used to get 1400 BHP from 1500cc in qualifying trim.

Yeah - and be good for 12 hours racing...max!

I worry with all the amount of 1.4 TSI Golf's/Passhits/Boras on the road - Only time will tell as to how durable they will be over a large amount of miles/km! Skimp on oil changes and those engines will be awful...

[steve_earwig]

A quick search for the 1.4 TSi reveals... DSG problems

Small capacity means less consumption/emissions at lower revs, while sticking a couple of blowers on it produces the big power figures where the emission and consumption figures no longer hold. But hey, if you're squashing the accelerator pedal into the carpet that's not highest in your mind.

Remember, in the early days of motoring (and I'm not talking about what was basically a horse-drawn carriage without the horse) engine capacities were massive, emissions would have had Greenpeace following them about in a dingy and consumption was down in the feet per gallon range. Since then, due to better understanding and improved materials, engines have become more and more efficient and forced induction means they don't have to have very big capacities to produce interesting power outputs. If you're worried about the bottom end surviving just think how much different things are now from the old days of trial-and-error, with CAD telling 'em just where things will break and allowing manufacturers to improve their designs accordingly. Things have come a long way from Pintos, Kents and the good ol' A-series.

The way I see it pug made a mistake with the 406 diesel, it lasts far too long......now they have to offer stupid deals to get people to buy new cars that will die sooner and keep the cash rolling in !!!

But the focus has obviously moved away from Cortinas dropping to bits at 100k, people have for years demanded cars that don't fall apart with the pox and wear out after a few years. Now they're here, built-in obsolescence is rapidly becoming a thing of the past and, to keep the cash rolling in, manufacturers have realised all they need to do is charge a fortune for parts when these hopelessly overcomplicated cars inevitably go wrong

[Welly]

an excellent post there Steve

[Doggy]

All relative I s'pose, the F1 Brabhams used to get 1400 BHP from 1500cc in qualifying trim.

Yeah - and be good for 12 hours racing...max!

Not exactlty....

1 out lap,
1 quick lap,
1 slow-down lap,
engine rebuild,

Simples.

[FarmerPug]

the mercedes benz 6 cylnder 300 diesel engine they just dont make engines like that any more, them thing never quit and i think its because the power output isnt too high

[Bailes1992]

Know someone who has a Vauxhall Omega with a 2.5 straight 6 diesel engine. Same diesel engine as BMW used in the 3/5 25TDS and it's done about 400k, been mapped, gets serviced twice a year, with an autobox. It's on it's second clutch and still goes well!

[steve_earwig]

autobox...clutch...

I'm confuzed

[Bailes1992]

autobox...clutch...

I'm confuzed

Autos still have clutches...

[steve_earwig]

Yep, multiple clutches and brake bands. It just seemed a bit odd...

[jasper5]

Is it just me or are manufacturers asking too much of engines ?
Unlike many members I quite like the looks of the 407 but I'm amazed that pug fit a 1.6 diesel engine in it, surely pushing that engine to 110 BHP is going to drastically reduce it's life ?

The 1.6 diesel engine is quite powerful, I serviced a 407 last week with the 1.6 in it and drove very well, however, my own 2.0 136 HDi 407 is a much more powerful car, very fast.
The 1.6 is fitted to the Peugeot Expert vans which are fairly heavy, Volvo also fit this engine to a large part of their range, some of the new cars have a build quality issue though (bits falling off, like radiator hoses and such.)
So far, I've serviced quite a few vehicles with this 1.6 engine in it and have very few problems, mainly oil leaks from the turbo to air filter pipe and the metal shroud around the particulate filter coming loose and rattling like hell.
As has been mentioned, modern engines are far better built and much stronger than the old days, eg, I used to work on old type Fords (amongst other things) in my early days in the car repair trade, the mk1 Cortina and Ford Anglia 3 bearing crank engines just weren't up to the job, the old Vauxhall Viva engines were very weak as well, even the old early Fiesta engines were rubbish.It's very rare to hear about piston and crank problems on modern engines, having said that I have a Vectra SRI with 2 cylinders not working that I have to look at soon
Steve's post is a very good one.