Antipollution fault /rattle/tapping noise - Help required

[paulb2004uk]

Hi,

I have a 2l hdi90 2001 estate. Get anti pollution fault and goes into limp mode.
About a month later started getting a rattle from the engine bay. The MOT is up so took
the car to Peugeot to get fault codes checked and get the rattle/tapping checked and an MOT
done.

Ouch quote for work to fix problems £2550.

Diagnostics showd Post Heating relay and glow plugs require further investigating
No code given to me

Engine rattle/tapping they say is top end (Not pulley breaking up) but say could cost up to £800
to strip and rebuild

Exhaust blowing at centre section - £1200

Question - Is the post heating relay the relay under the air filter - Best way to check relay
and plugs.

Any Ideas what rattle/tapping could be - speeds up with engine revs hydraulic lifter / rocker arm?
Could it be a glow plug breaking up?

I know is sounds vague, not sure where to start looking.

Thanks for any advice

[highlander]

Ouch quote for work to fix problems £2550

Exhaust blowing at centre section - £1200

Ouch, on both counts!

Take it to an independent garage instead, get them to investigate and give you a quote. Wait til they give you a quote, then tell them how much Peugeot were going to charge - most people need a good laugh these days, and would appreciate it.

[Doggy]

The post heating relay / glowplugs error probably means their diagnostic system shows an electical fault, (faulty relay / fuse / bad connection or just possibly glow plug(s) at fault. The glow plug system only plays a part in helping the car start and run smoothly for the first minute or so and that only in very cold weather. If your car runs, I would leave this bit for now.

The exhaust you can get for a fraction of the cost elsewhere so don't consider letting Pug do it.

The tapping is more difficult - could be a hydraulic tappet - if it's not had a recent oil/filter change you should do that first. It won't be a glow plug breaking up.

Auxilliary belt drive pulleys do fail, getting noisy first. If it's this you'll find rust of metal shavings around the lefthand end of the engine when viewed from the front.

You could also try running the engine briefly with the auxilliary drive belt off - this eliminates a number of things that could cause your noise.

If you can get a more definite description of the noise and/or its location it would help.

[paulb2004uk]

The car has had an oil and filter change, didn't make any difference to the noise.

Exhaust centre section replaced at Kwik Fit - £90, a bit of a saving lol
Looks like Peugeot quote for a whole system as I noticed when on the ramp there was no joins
in it from infront of the cat to the back box.

I'll try to get a better look to see if I can see anything around the pulleys.

The car starts ok. When cold if you rev it theres quite a bit of black smoke,
after a few minutes the dreaded fault light comes on then goes into limp mode.

Any idea what fuses to check ??

[steve_earwig]

Yep, the relay is under the air filter, sort of. 2001 puts it right in the middle of two possibles -
This is mine, which is the later sort:


I don't think the glowplug system is absolutely essential for starting an HDi, although obviously it will make it harder. I think if yours is raising a fault then it's probably the later one. Unless it's something completely different - part of the "magic" of fault codes is being able to interpret them correctly, without resorting to changing components one at a time until the fault goes, then charging the customer for the whole lot. Black smoke could be the MAF sensor or a stuck EGR,

Looks like Peugeot quote for a whole system as I noticed when on the ramp there was no joins in it from infront of the cat to the back box.

Indeed, it's all one bit from the manifold to the back box. The price for the centre section from Peugeot is half what they quoted you, so presumably the wanted to change the back box too. Incidentally, apparently these engines will still pass emissions tests without a cat, the version of your engine with Siemens management doesn't even start out with one.

Does the rattle go above 3,200rpm? If so it's the traditional injector rattle of the ageing HDi, nothing terminal but to get rid of it you will need 4 new injectors at 300 quid a pop Easier to turn the radio up and ignore it. If not then it's vital to check the pulley out - they can let go and send the belt through the timing cover and take the timing belt out. Not necessarily terminal on these engines but a real pain.

[rwb]

How does the rattle vary with engine speed?

[paulb2004uk]

Hi rwb,

The rattle does vary with the engine speed, the faster the revs the more you can hear it
and the faster it gets.

[Welly]

Sounds like the bottom pulley to me

[paulb2004uk]

Getting there with the problems. Peugeot quoted £800 for an engine stripdown to find the rattle.
They said definately not the bottom pulley and the noise was coming from the top end.

I collected the car, went and bought another bottom pulley anywayfor peace of mind.
Changed it this morning. My bottom pulley must have moved to the top end as the
rattle/tapping has cleared

Thanks for all the advice guys, just got to sort the pre/post heat issue.

Are the glow plugs easy to remove, someone told me they can snap in the engine, is this
true or a scare story to stop me replacing them.

Steve, my relay is green, must be the older type. Will try to get another and do along
with the glow plugs

[lozz]

Getting there with the problems. Peugeot quoted £800 for an engine stripdown to find the rattle.
They said definately not the bottom pulley and the noise was coming from the top end.

I collected the car, went and bought another bottom pulley anywayfor peace of mind.
Changed it this morning. My bottom pulley must have moved to the top end as the
rattle/tapping has cleared

Thanks for all the advice guys, just got to sort the pre/post heat issue.

Are the glow plugs easy to remove, someone told me they can snap in the engine, is this
true or a scare story to stop me replacing them.

Steve, my relay is green, must be the older type. Will try to get another and do along
with the glow plugs

Yup Glow plugs can snap on the hdis be careful mate,
best bet is too loosen them a little then tighten them then loosen them to clear the threads,
theyre delicate so dont apply to much preasure on them at 1st when trying to loosen them,

Btw why are you changing them,?
the hdi lumps dont rely on Glow plugs they are simply there to aid-cold starting even if they do go down itl still start as normal even in cold weather,

[Doggy]

Good news on the pulley.

Even better finding out what plonkers they are at Peugeot without spending a fortune, (hopefully).

Glow plug failures on HDi's are vanishingly rare. With this in mind and the element of risk that comes with removing anything that's been happily embedded in your engine for years, I would want to eliminate any possible electrical issue first.

I'm not sure which version of the glowplug controls you have, but if you can identify which components you have from those Steve described earlier, one of us will try to talk you through it. You could consider an auto electrical / diesel specialist, (preferably with a good reputation locally), if you don't want ot do it yourself.

Important thing to remember is there's no real urgency to this - your car will probably be OK untill the next real cold spell. I'm not suggesting not fixing it, but taking slowly and verifying any diagnosis thoroughly almost always saves you money.

[Welly]

I can't believe the Dealer said it was in need of a strip-down/top end

Imagine if they did that and THEN found the bottom pulley was at fault - what then? a huge bill then, that's what

Glad you got the noise sorted.

[steve_earwig]

Why would they be looking for something they already know about?

[Welly]

Why would they be looking for something they already know about?

Same reason why they'd replace the BSi, then the ECU, the Battery, the engine wiring harness, and THEN find a rusty connector under the drivers carpet

I only took my 406 to a Pug dealer once, it went okayyy.......and they were pleased when I returned a small pry-bar left on the bulkhead tray, I was pleased when I found one of the engine cover 'poppers' they claimed was never there, I was pleased also when they gave me 1ltr of fresh engine oil so that I could 'top it up' to the Max line after their oil change - I just thought it looked better on Max, seeing as I'd paid for an oil change an all.

[paulb2004uk]

Dogslife,

Checked the relay, I must have the older one, mines green. Have seen a new one on ebay,
hopefully I win it, if not will search for another one.

The engine diag shows it as logging a permanent fault and goes into limp mode.

Is there a way of testing the relay, If I win the part will just replace. If not will
try to test to prove if its working or failing