MG has come home

[FarmerPug]

http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/mg6-pro ... day/256506
i think its nice that the old longbridge factory has started up again and is at least doing something.

[sirwiggum]

Aye, but its a cut down production, effectively an off-shore factory for SAIC, a token effort so they can still claim British heritage.
They were building MGTFs until recently, though hardly sold any.

Not impressed. It wont be Longbridge at Austin-Rover / MG-Rover heyday.

Tata I think owns the rights to the Austin name. How about selling the smaller Tatas as Austin and having an offshore production in Englandshire?

[FarmerPug]

rovers hayday was back in 1996 i think, bmw had no problems with rover quality their main reason for the loss was the fact that the first two years they got rover they had a hands off approach, the sterling value then went up and it was costing them too much to invest in developing new cars such as the 200/400 replacment that would have been the key to thier success.

[sirwiggum]

rovers hayday was back in 1996 i think, bmw had no problems with rover quality their main reason for the loss was the fact that the first two years they got rover they had a hands off approach, the sterling value then went up and it was costing them too much to invest in developing new cars such as the 200/400 replacment that would have been the key to thier success.

BMW screwed Rover. It is their business practice. Same with Sauber.

At the 75 Launch, the boss of BMW was publicly making statements questioning the viability of Rover.

They wouldn't allow a V6 400, and they manufactured the 75 to not step on the toes of the 3 or 5 serieses.

They then cherrypicked what they could - the Land Rover 4x4 tech gave them a foot up on their X series SUVs, they stole the Mini brand and made a horrible hatchback, and they dumped the rest of the model range on Phoenix (Towers and co, not the gas company). Even the Rover 45 replacement got turned into the 1 series.

To be honest about Phonix though, they didn't have the right priorities, instead of concentrating on a mid-range cashcow to replace the 45, they focused on halo niche models such as the "Z" MG range, the V8 75 and ZT, and the MG SV sports car.

[FarmerPug]

I read the book about the collapse of rover up to 2001 it was one of the most interesting books I've ever read. BMW were not that bad pischestsrieder had optimistic plans for rover but the strength of the pound meant rovers were making a loss for BMW and he then got sacked.
But it was sad to see rover collapse it would be nice if they could bring it back

[sirwiggum]

In theory Jaguar (owned by Tata) own the Rover name (and Land Rover).

Ford kept the name option when it owned Land Rover, in case any company wanted to sell Rovers in America, and they get confused.

That's why the original Rover company leftovers became Roewe.

So in theory, Tata could sell one of their saloon cars, or perhaps base something on the XF and call it a Rover.

[lozz]

Rover wont be coming back,
Honda put the last nail in the coffin lid for them,
if Honda didnt pull out the Rover wouid still be in Production,

bmw bought rover for something Like a Fiver,
they tried to inject life back into it but obviously they only went so far and pulled the plug,

Rowe will keep the rover alive abit tho,
theyve done some Subtle changes but ithink theyl always look like a Rover,

It was Honda that caused Rover to come up With the problems with the K-series they stopped them from using there parts,
hence the problem with the Head gaskets it was honda that knew how to Make propper Gaskets and Stretch bolts for this Engine Rover didnt,
Thats why people went out looking for a Rover with the last of the Honda engine as it was cheaper than a Civic and it was more reliable than the K-series lump

[sirwiggum]

No No No.

Rover and Honda worked very closely, at one point Honda owned 20% of Rover, and Rover 20% of Honda UK.

BAe sold Rover to BMW for £800 million. As they are a new parent company they had to pay licence to Honda for using their chassis etc. which is why the Rover 600 and 800 were dropped and replaced by the 75.

It was asset stripped and sold by BMW to Towers for £10.

The K series was designed such that Rover would not have to buy engines from Honda. There was worry in management in the mid 80s that this would ensure their independence.
Honda had nothing to do with the K series. They did supply engines to some Rover models, and these are sought after as they have less head gasket issues.

It wasn't Honda that screwed Rover over. Honda was the best thing that happened to Rover during the 80s and 90s. The Concerto based 200 and the Legend based 800 were establishing Rover in the early 90s as an aspirational marque.

It was BMW that screwed Rover over.

[FarmerPug]

If honda had got rover we would still see john nettles whizzing round in one.
BAE was in serious sh*t at the time, and needed to remove any bits of the buisness that were not essential, rover being the biggest one, so there was a lot of negotiations going on. Honda did not want to totaly buy rover as it believed rover needed to be british owned for the brand identity, so it only offered to extend its sharehold of rover to something in the high 40% range, then the plan was to try and get rover to float onto the stock market by 1998. They did not want to buy all of rover, but BAE wanted a quick sale, BMW was the only option although VW was missed in 89 which would have made rover an english version of skoda and seat. BMW bought rover because it thought its model range wasnt large enough and they were not a big enough producer of cars to survive in the 21st century. BMW didnt want to dilute the brand with smaller cars so thats where rover was planned, an exhisting brand making smaller cars, bmw wanted this. But it all went pear shaped, they didnt develop new cars soon enough and rover started making big losses for BMW. Then an investment group alchemy tried to persuade bmw to sell them it, as they had a plan to make the buisness work, it involved just keeping MG which would make sporty cars in low numbers. But there was too many job losses planned, so a counter offer was made by the phoneix group, bmw also considered it, alchemy fell out with bmw leaving only the phoenix group with an offer.

I forget the rest but the phoenix group got mg rover for £10.
The book is really very interesting, but AR online does a good history of it all aswell.

[sirwiggum]

Some great nuggets of info there FarmerPug, nice one!

I wonder how VW would have worked out?
Perhaps every taxi would be a Rover 45 now?
Or would they be several sizes of MPV and a second hand Audi, like how VW've made a balls up of Seats brand identity?

They looked at a tie up with Renault at one point, which would've seen them selling Renault 11s as Rover 200s

AROnline is a fantastic site, well worth checking every now and again.

[FarmerPug]

What do you think of the new car

[sirwiggum]

What do you think of the new car

I got as excited over it as I did the Kia Ceed, Proton Gen2 and the Chevrolet Cruze Hatchback.

They need to sharpen the image, and for fleet sales get a diesel engine in there.

[FarmerPug]

They have a k series in there the diesel comes in 2012 it's got a bit of a mk6 ugly face with the bloated headlights but if it's priced right it should sell the right price being chevvy and Hyundai territory its not up there yet with the quality of European rivals to be priced like a golf

[STALLED]

Considering they were still selling the 25/45 in 2005 - which was a platform verging on a billion years old, no wonder why they went bust.

If people keep their cars on a 3-5 year life cycle, why would they buy another one exactly the same. Same goes for Saab and the like, people lose interest and take their quid elsewhere!

[sirwiggum]

If it is a good car, it shouldn't matter too much how old the platform is.

So while the 25 and 45 harked back to the Honda Concerto / R8 200 and Honda Domani / HHR 400, the 200 certainly was a fresh looking car that no-one really noticed the platform.

Ford, until 2008, had been selling the Ford Ka from 1996 which was based on the 1989 mk3 Fiesta platform.