HDI won't start - off road 5 weeks - help please!!!

bgsats · Post by **bgsats** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 10:18 pm

The 1999 T reg HDI estate which we.ve run with no problems except a broken spring failed to fire up about 5 weeks ago, about a week before we were due to go on holiday. The engine turned over normally but didn't fire at all, and showed "Electronic Ignition Fault" on the display. Nothing I tried would alter this, but a few hours later it started and ran normally. When I stopped it, though, back to square one. I booked it in with our local auto-electrician to have the fault codes read, the morning it was due there it wouldn't start again and had to be towed in. Now that I've looked into it a lot further, I know i should have asked for the actual code number, but I didn't, and he didn't give me a print-out (turns out he doesn't have a printer attached to his laptop). Anyway, all the info I have from him is that the code indicates an immobiliser fault. However, the garage which towed the car in insists it will be a fuel pump (in tank) problem. I've also been told it can't be a problem with the key as the fault would have been absolutely permanent in that case, it wouldn't ever start again until rectified. The car won't start at all now. It's high mileage (just short of 200,000) so isn't worth much more than a thousand, and I'm very reluctant to let the Peugeot agents loose on it (can't afford to anyway)! All I've done so far is replace the sensor unit which fits around the lock barrel (didn't really expect a cure, but at least it's eliminated). I've lifted the back seat and removed the inspection cover for the pump. Some work has been done there before, the opening has a few dents, and the seal between the pump and the tank leaks slightly.
Any suggestions as to where to go from here would be very much appreciated, we're really stuck without this car!
One last comment - is it really not possible to remove the pump (if it turns out to be necessary) through the inspection cover? There looks to be enough room!

bgsats · Post by **bgsats** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 9:58 am

I've seen numerous references to lowering the tank to allow removal of the pump, and even a complaint from an owner that the main dealer had mangled and badly repaired the hatch to save lowering the tank. And yet it looks as though it should clear. Has anyone done this? Also, any ideas on how to tackle the problem overall?

Post by **Welly** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:14 am

See here

viewtopic.php?t=979&start=0&postdays=0& ... ht=slapped

The only real way to do it is remove the tank.

Can't you here the pump in the tank anymore when you first go to ignition postion?

bgsats · Post by **bgsats** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:22 am

No - total silence from the pump - but does that necessarily mean the pump's faulty, or is it likely to be something else?

chili · Post by **chili** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:50 am

well if its total silence then it could be the power to the pump.

bgsats · Post by **bgsats** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:21 am

Any advice on how to check? Thanks!

Captain Jack · Post by **Captain Jack** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:57 am

Use a multimeter to check the voltages upon turning the key.

bgsats · Post by **bgsats** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 3:31 pm

Ignition Off:-
Terminal 1 (orange) 0.8v
Terminal 2 (grey) 0.0v
Terminal 3 (not in use)
Terminal 4 (yellow) 0.0v
Terminal 5 (purple) 4.78v

Ignition On:-
T1 0.13v
T2 0.0v
T4 0.0v
T5 4.73v

Starter motor turning:-
T1 0.12v
T2 9.2v and pump can be heard running (apparently normally!)
T4 0.20v
T5 3.79v
Should the pump definitely run with the ignition on but the starter not operating? Either way, what conclusion can I draw from these figures, and what can I check next? thanks for the help so far!

chili · Post by **chili** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:22 pm

when i first start my car i can hear the pump running.

bgsats · Post by **bgsats** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:55 pm

You mean as soon as you turn the ignition on? Can anyone confirm that applies to the HDI too?

Post by **Welly** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:54 am

To me, if you turn your key to ignition but you CANNOT hear the pump run for 5 seconds and stop (like it should) then the pump is at fault and should be changed.

After all this is a common problem, and I doubt very much if something else is stopping the pump from working, I suppose you could always take the inspection cover off and see if you can get a voltage from the wires serving the pump just so you can confirm that power is being sent to the thing. If power is present but the thing won't run then it's faulty.

PS. I know you don't want to be guessing what's wrong and spending money unnecessarily but to me this would be the most obvious choice but I cannot tell you it is definately the pump, I am only trying to suggest what it could be.

turbolag · Post by **turbolag** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 2:27 pm

Weltons advice is good stuff. Only thing I would add, even if you can hear the pump I would dismantle the fuel filter cannister and have a nosey inside - if you can see bits of swarf then that's a giveaway that the pump is dyding.

A word of warning - don't keep trying to start it until you've eliminated the lift pump. I've ehard of instances where people have tried and the strain it then places on the radial fuel pump, without the assistance of the lift pump, is sufficient to cause the radial pump to 'lock' and shred the cambelt. Not nice.

Guys - I take it the eastate has a different lift pumpm placement to the saloon, as i've done the pump in a saloon for a girl at work and it took about 1/2 hour going in under the seat? Yes, it took half hour to give this girl a good pump.

bgsats · Post by **bgsats** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 5:37 pm

Thanks for the replies! I wasn't aware the pump should run for 5 secs., then cut off. I'd been measuring voltages and checking whether the pump was running after the ignition had been on longer than that. The pump does indeed run for 5secs, then cuts off, as I now know it should. There is also a voltage of approx. 11 volts (I'll check again if necessary, it was raining!) on pin 2 while the pump was running without operating the starter. So the pump is running correctly, unless it's producing insufficient pressure! Any ideas where I can go from here? At least I know a bit more now!

chili · Post by **chili** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:06 pm

well i have just aquired this cd ;) almost £600 worth

http://www.autodata.ltd.uk/frames/set_prod.htm

and under the section 1999 pug 406 "engine difficult to start it says check the following...actually here is a piccy and you can see for yourself.

chili · Post by **chili** » Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:10 pm

and unedr engine will not start here is the check list they recommend