HDI won't start - off road 5 weeks - help please!!!
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Thanks, Chili, plenty to choose from there! Actually "engine will not start" applies now. Looks as though I have no choice but to get any fault codes read again, as I was given no print-out nor any record of the fault code number(s), just a verbal report that the fault code indicated an immobiliser problem.
We're a bit short of garages round here! However, just because it's booked in, it doesn't mean it has to go there, especially if I can find out anything else first. I made a mistake first of all by taking it to an auto-electrician who wasn't even able to give me a print out of the fault code, and just thought maybe the main dealer should be able to diagnose the problem more quickly. Anyway, hope it doesn't come to that! If I can investigate anything else beforehand, I will do, but at the moment I'm stuck for ideas.
The verdict fro the Peugeot dealer was:-
1.Built-in systems interface (BSI) Permanent fault: connection between built-in systems interface and engine management control unit
2.Built-in systems interface (BSI) Intermittent fault: Analogue module/(engine immobiliser function).
3.Built-in systems interface (BSI) Intermittent fault: Key not learned.
Their interpretation is that the BSI and ECU are not communicating, so any combination of the BSI, the ECU and the wiring between them may be faulty. I have the BSI and ECU here to send away to be checked/repaired, any reccomendations, please?
1.Built-in systems interface (BSI) Permanent fault: connection between built-in systems interface and engine management control unit
2.Built-in systems interface (BSI) Intermittent fault: Analogue module/(engine immobiliser function).
3.Built-in systems interface (BSI) Intermittent fault: Key not learned.
Their interpretation is that the BSI and ECU are not communicating, so any combination of the BSI, the ECU and the wiring between them may be faulty. I have the BSI and ECU here to send away to be checked/repaired, any reccomendations, please?
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Welly
- The moderator formally known as Welton
- Posts: 15033
- Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:52 pm
- Location: East Midlandfordshire
That, is a bloody nuisance, I feel for you as I had a similar fault code excersise recently.
The trouble is, the fault 'explanations' are not always the actual fault.
I had the one about the key not recognised, it meant nothing in the end. The general headings describing the faults only scratch the surface, dealve deeper and you begin to unravel the mistery.
My Engine check light was on recently and the ECU said:
Glow Plugs
Keys
Fan relays
Throttle switch
ECU
....it turned out to be the radiator fan drawing too much current, putting too much load on it's fuse and putting up the faults.
It is very sad when the ever-lasting mechanical core of the engine will continue to give over 300,000 miles but is let down prematurely by other sensors and the like connected to it giving silly faults like these.
I'll wager that the actual problem will be straight forward and fairly cheap to fix, it's just finding it. I am no expert on car electronics however the first thing I would do myself is remove each of the Engine Compartment fuses one by one (the ones for the ECU/ABS etc) and just look at the fuse for signs of over-heating.
If a big fuse like a 40 amp has been struggling to handle the load (they can deteriorate) then it can throw a wobbly with the ECU etc, just replacing the fuse with a new one would help.
The trouble is, the fault 'explanations' are not always the actual fault.
I had the one about the key not recognised, it meant nothing in the end. The general headings describing the faults only scratch the surface, dealve deeper and you begin to unravel the mistery.
My Engine check light was on recently and the ECU said:
Glow Plugs
Keys
Fan relays
Throttle switch
ECU
....it turned out to be the radiator fan drawing too much current, putting too much load on it's fuse and putting up the faults.
It is very sad when the ever-lasting mechanical core of the engine will continue to give over 300,000 miles but is let down prematurely by other sensors and the like connected to it giving silly faults like these.
I'll wager that the actual problem will be straight forward and fairly cheap to fix, it's just finding it. I am no expert on car electronics however the first thing I would do myself is remove each of the Engine Compartment fuses one by one (the ones for the ECU/ABS etc) and just look at the fuse for signs of over-heating.
If a big fuse like a 40 amp has been struggling to handle the load (they can deteriorate) then it can throw a wobbly with the ECU etc, just replacing the fuse with a new one would help.
Cars in my care:
2021 Kia Spottage 1.6 Pez Turbo Dual Clutch Gearbox Trickery
2013 Renner Twingo - donkey work
2021 Kia Spottage 1.6 Pez Turbo Dual Clutch Gearbox Trickery
2013 Renner Twingo - donkey work
I've been checking on the cost of getting the ECU and BSI checked and if necessary repaired, and the highest quote I had was £250. I also had 3 different places suggesting they could re-program the ECU only and do away with the immobiliser. We definitely don't have a major vehicle theft problem here, so I've opted to give it a go for £129 all in. Of course it may be a total waste of money, time will tell! I'll post the result here. It represents about 2 hours labour with the Peugeot garage.
Perhaps I should be pointing that out to Peugeot! There's another one, same model, same year, on Ebay for spares with the same fault. As you say, otherwise a good car capable of very long life, but badly let down by their unneccessary over-use of unstable electronic equipment.
Edit:- The car on Ebay was a 2000 reg. and fetched just £260 - item number 220034569321.
Edit:- The car on Ebay was a 2000 reg. and fetched just £260 - item number 220034569321.
Got the ECU back today so went to the Peugeot dealer and paid the £61 I owed them for an hour's labour. They had asked me whether to put everything back when I first phoned them after they extracted the fault info., and thinking they were just talking about a bit of trim, said no. I wasn't prepared for what I found! I hadn't swept the car out before I took it to them, so there were the usual bits of gravel and a few scraps of paper on the floor. and in amongst them were a mixture of screws, bolts, nuts, clips etc. The rubber seal around the door was half off, 8 or so connectors were disconnected to the right of the footwell, trim doubled back, pieces of trim behind the front seats, and no seat covers anywhere. Under the bonnet, the heater unit was missing, two large round multiplugs under the battery tray disconnected, engine and battery covers off, and all the fixings just put down anywhere in the engine compartment. I complained to the (I think) service manager, and he got one of their staff to spend a few minutes showing me where some of the bits went. got everything wired up (and got the heater back from inside the garage), turned the key, and the fault's still there. I'm just over £200 worse off so far, and still quite a few bits and pieces to secure inside the car.
I'm less than amused that the garage didn't advise me they had pulled half the car apart, and quite obviously treated it with no respect at all. Also quite agrieved that Peugeot have incorporated technology into their vehicles which is effectively writing them off when they should have years of life left. Just wondering whether it's worth contacting Peugeot customer relations......
Alternatively there's a high sea cliff not far from here, I'm sure 2 strong men could get it to the edge!
I'm less than amused that the garage didn't advise me they had pulled half the car apart, and quite obviously treated it with no respect at all. Also quite agrieved that Peugeot have incorporated technology into their vehicles which is effectively writing them off when they should have years of life left. Just wondering whether it's worth contacting Peugeot customer relations......
Alternatively there's a high sea cliff not far from here, I'm sure 2 strong men could get it to the edge!
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Welly
- The moderator formally known as Welton
- Posts: 15033
- Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:52 pm
- Location: East Midlandfordshire
That sucks.......
You know, the Dealer has (or should have) all the upto date gizmo's for sorting out faults like these and yet can't seem to help you, I hate it when places like this WON'T enter into the spirit of helping a motorist (you) and reviving an otherwise good car
They would even charge you for putting it all back together you know.
I don't know what to say to you, the car can be fixed, any car can be fixed, but at a cost and the question is what cost? you will undoubtedely get to the point where you will think it's not worth it?
The way I look at these things is this: if you're generally ok with the car and you will probably have had some repairs to it a generally kept up with maintenance over the time you owned it then I would be prepared to spend upto say, £1000.00 to fix it. That sounds a lot BUT you already own the car and if you dont fix it it will be worth £250.00 to you so in effect you could leave it and buy a car for £1250.00, but what would you get for that? it won't be as good as the 406 you already own.
Time for some serious thinking ?????????
You know, the Dealer has (or should have) all the upto date gizmo's for sorting out faults like these and yet can't seem to help you, I hate it when places like this WON'T enter into the spirit of helping a motorist (you) and reviving an otherwise good car
They would even charge you for putting it all back together you know.
I don't know what to say to you, the car can be fixed, any car can be fixed, but at a cost and the question is what cost? you will undoubtedely get to the point where you will think it's not worth it?
The way I look at these things is this: if you're generally ok with the car and you will probably have had some repairs to it a generally kept up with maintenance over the time you owned it then I would be prepared to spend upto say, £1000.00 to fix it. That sounds a lot BUT you already own the car and if you dont fix it it will be worth £250.00 to you so in effect you could leave it and buy a car for £1250.00, but what would you get for that? it won't be as good as the 406 you already own.
Time for some serious thinking ?????????
Cars in my care:
2021 Kia Spottage 1.6 Pez Turbo Dual Clutch Gearbox Trickery
2013 Renner Twingo - donkey work
2021 Kia Spottage 1.6 Pez Turbo Dual Clutch Gearbox Trickery
2013 Renner Twingo - donkey work
Yes, I've already done that calculation, my reasoning was as follows:-
Value of car (running) 190K miles, £1000 - £1250 max.
Value as is £300 (worth a bit more than a saloon, and maybe I'd get more than that if I sell parts seperately)
£1000 - £300, leaves no more than £700 to spend. The £200 I've spent doesn't come into the equation, that's gone!
I can leave it with the Peugeot garage and tell them to get on with it, after 2 days and not allowing for parts, I'd have a bill for £1000, and no guarantee any progress would be made. If I had a definite figure for a repair, I could make a decision. Has anybody any idea what parts ought to sell, and for how much?
Value of car (running) 190K miles, £1000 - £1250 max.
Value as is £300 (worth a bit more than a saloon, and maybe I'd get more than that if I sell parts seperately)
£1000 - £300, leaves no more than £700 to spend. The £200 I've spent doesn't come into the equation, that's gone!
I can leave it with the Peugeot garage and tell them to get on with it, after 2 days and not allowing for parts, I'd have a bill for £1000, and no guarantee any progress would be made. If I had a definite figure for a repair, I could make a decision. Has anybody any idea what parts ought to sell, and for how much?
This may be some help to other members, so here goes! The car is now running thanks to information from Chris at TotalTuning, Pontypridd, S. Wales. After I got the ECU back from him he gave me some info. on voltages from the ECU connector. Several readings were wrong, including 2 pins with battery voltage missing. (Did the Peugeot dealers check this, it took me 5 minutes?) I contacted Chris again, he suggested I bridge some pins on the connector for the relay next to the ECU. (Did the Peugeot dealers do this, if so it was the only connector they put back together? Another 5 mins.) The engine then fired once but wouldn't start. I then replaced the relay and the engine started, and has done so every time I've tried tonight. All I've done is clean the connector terminals with my temporary link wires. All the Peugeot dealers did (if they did more or found out more they kept it to themselves) was to disconnect every connector they could find. whether they had time to take readings from any of them I very much doubt. Thanks to everyone here who helped! I'll be writing to Peugeot customer relations in the next few days, and when I get a reply I'll post here again!
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Captain Jack
- 3.0 24v
- Posts: 3820
- Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 11:26 am
- Location: Langford, Somerset
Result!
So it was just a dodgy relay....? What does it drive?
Just been reading your post about the "service" you received from Peugeot dealers. You have to remember that they are all sharing one brain cell between the 10 of them and in the end, they don't care what happens to the car because they get paid the same rate.
I have always used (and probably always will) my local independent Peugeot garage. They are not the cheapest of the bunch, but the car always gets looked after there. All the jobs they have done so far for me have been spot on. I also have a local auto-electrical and diesel specialists in the area who have been more than helpful with my mum's Renault Clio diesel. It was blowing loads of smoke, the engine tended to cut out randomly and it was generally running lumpy. At the time it had only done 50k miles! Took to the local Renault dealer who were useless and blamed the injectors being faulty without even plugging the car onto their diagnostics machine. I suppose it coule have been the injectors but I wouldn't want to spend the quoted £800 to find out. So I took it to that diesel specialist, who said the ECU had died. Replaced it with the new one for £195 all in and it has been fine ever since.
Just wondering whether ALL main dealers are as crap as French car ones...?? Anyone had a good experience with any of them...? Ever...?
So it was just a dodgy relay....? What does it drive?
Just been reading your post about the "service" you received from Peugeot dealers. You have to remember that they are all sharing one brain cell between the 10 of them and in the end, they don't care what happens to the car because they get paid the same rate.
I have always used (and probably always will) my local independent Peugeot garage. They are not the cheapest of the bunch, but the car always gets looked after there. All the jobs they have done so far for me have been spot on. I also have a local auto-electrical and diesel specialists in the area who have been more than helpful with my mum's Renault Clio diesel. It was blowing loads of smoke, the engine tended to cut out randomly and it was generally running lumpy. At the time it had only done 50k miles! Took to the local Renault dealer who were useless and blamed the injectors being faulty without even plugging the car onto their diagnostics machine. I suppose it coule have been the injectors but I wouldn't want to spend the quoted £800 to find out. So I took it to that diesel specialist, who said the ECU had died. Replaced it with the new one for £195 all in and it has been fine ever since.
Just wondering whether ALL main dealers are as crap as French car ones...?? Anyone had a good experience with any of them...? Ever...?