Dead (?) 406 SRi Turbo

Fuz · Post by **Fuz** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:50 pm

Hi all, have just joined and spent a few hours trying to find some answers to no avail.

I've had the car (P reg) since Feb this year, all was fine until it started blowing blue smoke out the back. I found I had an oil leak from the bit of metal that the oil filter screws into.
My local garage tutted and mentioned "new" engines and "lots of labour" but he did supply me with some oil additive which turned the blue smoke into large fluffy white clouds, after 30 mins or so the engine stopped smoking

So off I went, only £8 poorer and a bit happier.

The thing is, adding only 1/2 litre of oil made it smoke again, so as I need the car to make a living ( and the wedge for a proper fix !) I carried on using it.
The car was fine on short trips with low oil but I ended up going to a job 20 miles away, i got as far as 10.

I thought the engine had siezed, on opening the bonnet I saw the dipstick had popped out ( not difficult as the plastic was crumbling anyway ) and when I looked in the oil filler a wisp of smoke came out from the too.

A few days later I made it back to the car, dropped some oil in and tried starting it, all I got was a relay/solenoid type click from behind the dash.

A friend helped me tow it last night, the upside was I got to drive his Mustang powered MG

(he is heavier than me and could stamp on the unassisted pug brakes more efficiently

When being towed he put it in fifth and the engine turned normally but wouldnt fire up.

The question is .. is my ECU stopping me from starting the car ? Would disconnecting the battery for a while help ?

Otherwise .. one 406, in Leicester, breaking for spares

Ps how do I know if I have a D8 or 9 ?

miniman · Post by **miniman** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:10 pm

Hi there man, im sorry to hear of your troubles.
Welcome to pug land, where nothing is quite as it seems.
All I do know, is that your car is the older D8.
It could be that the head gasket has gone. A compression test on all 4 cylinders would tell that.
I cant understand why the engine wont turn over on the starter motor though. It should still turn over ok.
There are a lot of clever people here that could/should help you out better than I can.
Good luck.

Fuz · Post by **Fuz** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:20 pm

Thanks for the tip, I thought that a blown gasket might be the cause of my smoke problem but have very little in the way of tools anymore.
Where do they all go ? Years ago I had lots of stuff, gear pullers , dent pullers, balljoint thingies etc, now can I find them ?!.

I can't get to the car as I towed it to my friends' house ( still miles away but a different direction

) but I'm sure he has the tools to check for me.

I'm hoping he'll let me borrow his Ultima for a while

some hope !

niz406 · Post by **niz406** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:25 pm

Hi Chap,

First thing first..... remove the sparks and try and turn the engine by hand on the crankshaft pulley, if it turns freely its not seized!
Now roll up some kitchen roll into a tight thin roll and place it the spark plug holes feed it in until it reaches the bottom, retract and see if there is any water etc... soaked up by it.... check all 4 if there is any water your headgasket has gone.

If Not the next job is to check the condition of the battery, a drop test will do the trick ( and I dont mean take it out of the car and drop it on the floor

he he he ) If the battery is good, then whack the starter, you could have a dodgy solinoid....

If thats not it, then remove your black plastic air feed pipe for the turbo from the air box back, 2 x 10mm bolts 2 jubilee clips, put your hand into the turbo and see if you can spin the compressor wheel by hand, if not its siezed and this is where your oil is burning from, coked bearings I'm afraid... how many miles she done?

That should keep you going for a few hours, if its none of those come back and i'll give you some more things to check....

Fuz · Post by **Fuz** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:10 pm

Thanks, I'll check all those points, probably won't be til the weekend though.

Mileage is around 120k

jason j · Post by **jason j** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 1:35 pm

Similar problem to mine, except mine is running fine as long as I keep the oil topped up been diagnosed as turbo seals.

Not trying to hijack the thread but how easy is it to remove the turbo from the car what is involved??.

Got scammed on ebay for a haynes manual seller is no longer a registered user

niz406 · Post by **niz406** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 3:02 pm

Turbo off.... well lets see.... for me its a piece of pi$$! ( had to do it so many times ! ! )

YOu've never taken it off before then?

Its a bummer, you have to remove the subframe to get access to remove it....

1 ) drain coolant (Remove thermostat to ensure block drains too)
2 ) Chock rear wheels
3 ) Losen road wheels, Jack up front end and support on axle stands
4 ) Remove the pipework - air filter connecting pipe, black plastic pipe, alloy charge pipes (10mm and jubilee clips)
5 ) Remove wheels
6 ) Slacken and remove suspension drop links to roll bar nuts(19mm?) 65nm
7 ) Slacken and remove suspension lower ball joint nuts (22mm) 45nm
8 ) Slacken and remove lower engine movement limiter (18mm) 85nm
9 ) Slacken and remove steering gear mounting bolts and recover washers (18mm) 85nm
10 ) With the help of an assistant place a jack under the subframe and start to raise the front up
11 ) Slacken and remove the 4 subframe mounting bolts (18mm) 120nm
12 ) using the jack lower the subframe and remove clear from the car.
13 ) disconnect water (jubilee clip) & oil feed (17mm) pipes
14 ) Remove heatshield(10mm)
15 ) disconnect oil return(T40) and water return(18mm) pipes
16 ) remove exhaust(10mm socket and spanner)
17 ) Disconnect actuator pipe
18 ) Unbolt lower mounting nuts(13mm 12sided deep socket) 60nm
19 ) With an assistant below the car holding the turbo in place, undo upper mounting nuts and have assistant lower the turbo(carefully as there will be coolant and some oil inside still)
20 ) Strip turbo and repair

Refitting is a reversal, you just need to prime the turbo with a little bit of oil once in place and the return hoses are connected... don't put it on with totally dry bearings!

HTH I've included the torque settings for the major bolts, you may need the manual for the others although most of them are nipped hand tight

jason j · Post by **jason j** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 5:02 pm

Niz406 wrote:Turbo off.... well lets see.... for me its a piece of pi$$! ( had to do it so many times ! ! )

YOu've never taken it off before then?

Its a bummer, you have to remove the subframe to get access to remove it....

1 ) drain coolant (Remove thermostat to ensure block drains too)
2 ) Chock rear wheels
3 ) Losen road wheels, Jack up front end and support on axle stands
4 ) Remove the pipework - air filter connecting pipe, black plastic pipe, alloy charge pipes (10mm and jubilee clips)
5 ) Remove wheels
6 ) Slacken and remove suspension drop links to roll bar nuts(19mm?) 65nm
7 ) Slacken and remove suspension lower ball joint nuts (22mm) 45nm
8 ) Slacken and remove lower engine movement limiter (18mm) 85nm
9 ) Slacken and remove steering gear mounting bolts and recover washers (18mm) 85nm
10 ) With the help of an assistant place a jack under the subframe and start to raise the front up
11 ) Slacken and remove the 4 subframe mounting bolts (18mm) 120nm
12 ) using the jack lower the subframe and remove clear from the car.
13 ) disconnect water (jubilee clip) & oil feed (17mm) pipes
14 ) Remove heatshield(10mm)
15 ) disconnect oil return(T40) and water return(18mm) pipes
16 ) remove exhaust(10mm socket and spanner)
17 ) Disconnect actuator pipe
18 ) Unbolt lower mounting nuts(13mm 12sided deep socket) 60nm
19 ) With an assistant below the car holding the turbo in place, undo upper mounting nuts and have assistant lower the turbo(carefully as there will be coolant and some oil inside still)
20 ) Strip turbo and repair

Refitting is a reversal, you just need to prime the turbo with a little bit of oil once in place and the return hoses are connected... don't put it on with totally dry bearings!

HTH I've included the torque settings for the major bolts, you may need the manual for the others although most of them are nipped hand tight

Easy then!!!!! fancy a day in birmingham!!!

niz406 · Post by **niz406** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 5:21 pm

Nah..... me car might get robbed !

You got a service kit for it or you sending it of to be rebuilt ?

jason j · Post by **jason j** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 5:33 pm

Niz406 wrote:Nah..... me car might get robbed !

You got a service kit for it or you sending it of to be rebuilt ?

Rebuild prob with t28 internal, don't fancy trying to rebuild a turbo first turbo car I have owned!.

Birmingham ain't that bad!(not all of it anyway)

Fuz · Post by **Fuz** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 7:17 pm

Back again...

Well the car is buggered, apparently the cam belt had snapped and the assumed rolling in fifth gear was actually the clutch doing a decent job of engine braking

I had a few quotes for replacement engines, from £200 to £400 + VAT (how can people charge VAT on 2nd hand stuff ? it's was paid when the car / part was bought new wasn't it ?!?!?! )

As the car was my livelyhood and we are halfway through Oct with no income there's no way I can get it repaired, it also means hello dole queue.

Anybody want any bits ?

niz406 · Post by **niz406** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 7:28 pm

jason j wrote:Rebuild prob with t28 internal, don't fancy trying to rebuild a turbo first turbo car I have owned!.

Well if your going rebuild with T28 compressor wheel and cover then may I suggest that you buy your service kit of ebay, it will cost you a lot less in the long run... plus the ones on ebay come with 360 degree thrust bearing kit as well as stock 270 degree kit !

This way you can hand over the 360 degree kit and then let them just clean, rebuild and balance it for you... you'll save a small fortune !

jason j · Post by **jason j** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 7:31 pm

Niz406 wrote:
jason j wrote:Rebuild prob with t28 internal, don't fancy trying to rebuild a turbo first turbo car I have owned!.
Well if your going rebuild with T28 compressor wheel and cover then may I suggest that you buy your service kit of ebay, it will cost you a lot less in the long run... plus the ones on ebay come with 360 degree thrust bearing kit as well as stock 270 degree kit !

This way you can hand over the 360 degree kit and then let them just clean, rebuild and balance it for you... you'll save a small fortune !

Cheers mate recc a shop or username for product?