2003/4 XUD Anyone?

[Doggy]

My bro's just got his S-reg 1.9TD estate through its 3rd MOT, confirming this is probably the best £800 he's ever spent. Collected a couple of advisories this time, to tarnish its otherwise perfect record. At around 155k, its nicely run in now too.

The problem is this - he would very much like to replace it as he does several international trips every year and is keenly aware its not getting any younger, but it runs faultlessly on a diet of about 80% WVO, (which he can get FOC). I know most common rail engines should be able to run on decent biodiesel, but swapping to this fuel would add something like 30p/litre to the cost and demand 20-30% more WVO for a given volume of bio, plus the hassle of the process. For this reason we've been racking our brains trying to come up with a newer or potentially longer-lasting alternative vehicle.

Some possibilities have already been discounted, (e.g. up to 2002 306/Xsara non-turbo diesels) as they're too small/not good enough cruising machines for a trip to the Med.

In the absence of a suitable alternative, we hit on the idea of converting a late model 110 HDi estate to mechanical injection. May be pure nonsense, but I would welcome everyone's input on why they think this is/is not possible.

I'm less concerned about the electronic issues than the purely mechanical ones:
Are there any pintle-type injectors that could be fitted to a DW10 head?
Could an XUD head fit a DW10?
etc. etc.

[lozz]

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16911&p=166464&hili ... d9#p166464

[lozz]

wouidnt it be quicker, easier less costly just to rip hdi engine out, throw xud lump in there
and take dash out change loom, throw bsi in wheelie bin alot of hastle tho, just to get it to run on wvo

[Doggy]

Maybe, but I'm thinking that it might be possible to keep the BSI and the EDC15 engine ecu, (though it's not controlling the engine), but still connected to the crank and coolant sensors, that way the clocks should still work. You would need to wire the external signals needed for the XUD ecu, but I can't imagine there's that many of them.

[lozz]

Whats this Twin Tank conversion ?

( In these types of diesel engines fuel is also injected directly in to the cylinders of the engine, however the fuel injection pumping system is different to the above. With common rail direct injection the main fuel pump does not pump to each cylinder in turn. Instead it pumps fuel at pressure into a “common rail” which is a common pipe, resilient to high fuel pressures which branches off to each injector. Computer operated valves then control when the fuel injection into the cylinder occurs rather than the timing of the pump. This allows the pressure at which the fuel is injected into the cylinders to be increased, which creates a better combustion of the fuel. Better combustion leads to better fuel efficiency and also lower unburnt or partially burnt emissions. Some manufacturers refer to this type of engine as high-pressure direct injection (HDI). These systems currently can only be converted with two tank conversion systems as they have to start up on diesel. The two tank kits are also not of the conventional type as additional pumps need to be fitted to these systems. )


Carnt find anymore info on it tho,

[lozz]

http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/for ... p?tid=9422


http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/for ... ?tid=15596

[Doggy]

It's a system where you use two fuel tanks - one with normal diesel to start the engine on and flush the veg oil out before stopping and a second, heated tank which is filled with veg oil. Once the oil's hot enough, (about 70 deg), you swap over to heated veg oil.

I'm confident it will work on mechanical injection systems with fragile pumps, (Lucas etc), but less convinced with very high pressure systems. IIRC the veg oil is supposed to separate into thin & thick components under extreme pressure and the thick stuff still bungs up your injectors.

[omega]

what about a merc?
will run on veg,comfy to drive,and you can get parts abroad.

[Welly]

It seems reasonable to transplant an XUD into a new-ish D9 but are they ever going to test Diesel eggsauce emissions, like CO HC's etc? at the moment it's just a smoke test isn't it? just thinking the XUD won't measure up to what the test is 'expecting' from the HDi etc...

My only thoughts are to get a 'proper' Mercedes from 1994-ish but then that's not really young either

It's a shame but el' cheapo motoring like this has its days numbered in a way.

He could always spend a few hundred on new sussy parts, dampers, bushes, back plates ( ) etc and have himself a car that feels new lots of people keep old motors going for years with no problems.

[sirwiggum]

I think the engine management light would show on the D9, as it gets confused as there are no expensive bits to go wrong on an XUD, EML is an MOT fail.

Regarding engine size, I was once told by a mechanic that the HDi is basically an XUD with a common rail head.
Take that with a pinch of salt though.

Last XUDs I can think of were either the 206 or the C15 van.

[Doggy]

1.9XUD & DW10 are the same stroke, but DW10 is 85 mm bore, as opposed to 83 mm, so not sure the heads would swap.

Does anyone know of an example where the same engine was produced in both mechanical injection and common rail designs, (BMW 320D, Jeep 2.5TD)?

Wondering if it's possible to get both kinds of injectors in the same 'package'.


I've not seen anything to suggest an EML lit is an MOT fail - ABS / Air bags maybe, but why EML?


Didn't Merc go common rail before most? What would be the last example that wasn't?

[gumby6371]

I'd have to ask how many miles you need the car to do annually?

If the shell is in tidy condition I'd be inclined to agree with Welly and throw some money at new suspension, exhaust etc...

Personally I work out what your brother would spend at the pump minus what he actually spends using WVO and spend 50% of the savings keeping the 406 running

A quick rough calculation, I do about 5000 a year and an 80% saving would be £700 in my pocket. On 10,000 a year you could get an engine rebuild with a 5 year garuntee and still be in the black, probably not a sensible idea but financially viable.

£2,500 and you could have a new car if you're handy with the spanners

(disclaimer - the last comment was in no way suggesting it would be a sensible idea to spend £2,500 on a mk1 406)

[Doggy]

He does about 12k / year, about 10k in the UK, the rest in France.

He is considering spending some more on the existing car, or looking for a lower mileage example, but the fact remains that either option involves a pretty old car and can only reasonably get him through another year or two.

[Welly]

a pretty old car and can only reasonably get him through another year or two.

If he's used to the D8 I bet he'd love a newer motor with a DMF, DPF, EGR, EBD, DSC, BBC, ITV.........

I dunno, if his car does what he needs and he knows it inside out then why not throw some money at it rather than take a punt at something with all kinds of issues if its only done 155K surely it's good for another 50K? worst thing that could happen is a blown HG but that's easily fixored.

Welly
Sold a perfectly good 406 then wasted loads on finance what could have bought loads more 406's which were comfy like and economical and stuff

[Doggy]

The reality is he would happily invest sensible money in something half the age / mileage, provided it didn't involve using only pump diesel.

The plan up to now was to get set up making bio & buy a newer car, (possibly a certain 2.2)

He's realised that even if a newer HDi is a bit more economical, he'll still need loads more veg oil plus additives and so on. Also, D8 1.9 TD estates only come in poverty, dire poverty and abject misery trim levels - his is an 'SX' a sort of run-out special edition with no toys, 'cept a/c & a CD changer, neither of which work.

Looking at the advisories on his MOT, it'll need rear upper link arms, (& the attendant grief of setting the camber), plus a CV joint boot, that'll turn into a 'wonder what caused that', wheel bearing failure a few months later. It's not the tidiest example you'll find, (doubles as plumber's van and dog transporter) and it only cost him £ 800, 3 years back.