HDi Starting problems - won't crank at times - starter motor

[OdinEidolon]

Hi all, my car (see signature) is suffering once again of problems. This times it struggles to start.

When turning the car on a horrible clunking metallic sounds can be heard. Like some pipe touches some other metal piece.
The problem is that sometimes the car will not start. Sometimes it will only crank once then stay silent, sometimes it won't even crank once and will just stay silent like I didn't turn the key.
Usually it starts fine from cold (but with the metallic sound), then from hot it will require two or more tries to get it running. It is getting worse and worse, and pretty fast.

I cannot hear any noise when not cranking, the car is OK, the problem is that sometimes it struggles to start, the two problems (noise and starting) are connected for sure.

Three weeks ago my battery drained but I charged it and it was fine, I do not think it's related since after some trials it starts fine.
The starter motor draws current because the whole dash dims when cranking. But sometimes it just does one crank and stops, cometimes not even one crank, sometimes it'll start OK.

I'm very worried. I have a 20 months old and I cannot afford to be left in the middle of nowhere with her in the car.
Last time it required 6 tries before it started OK. It didn't even crank once. Then suddenly it started OK. Why does it do so only when hot?

Don't tell me it's the starting motor, I guess that ain't cheap

[Doggy]

Adriano,

It does sound likely that your starter motor is the problem, but one thing I could not tell from your description - when it does not crank, is it still drawing power, (does the dash dim)?

If not, (or if you are unsure), I think you must check whether you have 12V. at the solenoid terminal, (the small wire), to the starter motor. If you have 12V every time AND you have a good earth for the starter motor, then I think you have proven it is faulty. (If the 12V is intermittent, the earth is poor, your starter may be jumping in and out of engagement - a possible cause for the noise).

As you say the starter motor is expensive and awkward to change, so you must prove conclusively it is at fault before removing it.

[steve_earwig]

Ok, it's the umm... Investigate the starter motor, from your description I can't think of anything else. Anything from hanging off ( ) to broken ring gear.

[jasper5]

Take a small hammer and tap the starter motor a few times and see what happens, especially when you have no click.

If the starter works ok after the tapping you need a new one.

[Doggy]

Ok, it's the umm... Investigate the starter motor, from your description I can't think of anything else. Anything from hanging off ( ) to broken ring gear.

I was thinking an intemittent contact/bad joint or similar could cause the starter to work erratically, but your comment has jogged my memory about an even more horrifying possibility - the ring gear is on the outer bit of the DMF........

[OdinEidolon]

Yes Eric it still does dim even when it does not crank. It really sounds like a broken starter.

I've been told it's not a huge job to get it refurbished. But I fear removing it and getting it back on can be expensive. I'll investigate further about this and if I can do that myself.

Thanks all for your comments. I'll grab a hammer. Getting a hammer down there will not be easy!

[Welly]

Are you sure you're getting a decent charge from the alternator? needs to be about 14.6volts going into the battery - might be a low battery.

Some starter motors make a noise like a machine gun if there's not enough power.

I don't think there's a problem with HDi starter motors usually.

Re: The Hammer - you can grab a piece of wood or something, place it on the starter body and 'tap' it from the top.

[OdinEidolon]

Are you sure you're getting a decent charge from the alternator? needs to be about 14.6volts going into the battery - might be a low battery.

Some starter motors make a noise like a machine gun if there's not enough power.

I don't think there's a problem with HDi starter motors usually.

Re: The Hammer - you can grab a piece of wood or something, place it on the starter body and 'tap' it from the top.

This would make no sense since the problems happens when hot, even after a 150 miles highway (2000 rpm all the time) trip, the battery should then be fully charged.
It did start OK last time I left the car steady for 4 days. Also after some tries it starts fine.

Right?

[Welly]

The power side of things might be ok then.

Actually when the battery starts getting tired you normally get a warning on the mfd....something like "ELECTRONIC IGNITION FAULT"

[OdinEidolon]

The power side of things might be ok then.

Actually when the battery starts getting tired you normally get a warning on the mfd....something like "ELECTRONIC IGNITION FAULT"

I have no fault, tho I'll check with pp2000 later just to be sure it is not hiding me something