That's a nice car....

[Captain Jack]

10k a year? What's wrong with that? You just hate Pugs, Sam.

The tow bar is a worry... and the two owners it had.

I would never buy a diesel that's done less than 15k pa. Even more so with modern emissions nonsense, you're just asking for trouble. Buy a 100ker! I did an bloody glad as everyone who has issues on the talk ford forum are all low milers.

Sadly, I tried that before - a 3 year old Honda Accord 2.2 CDTi with 89k miles on the clock. Wrote it off with a turbo failure 20k and 9 months later.

There is a modicum of truth in what you're saying, though. My current '6 had quite a lot of little niggles sorted in its first 60k miles before I bought it - such as glow plugs and a brake servo Surprised it didn't come with a flat front end.

The 407s are... OK. I test drove a petrol a few months ago and hated it. To sit in, it was like sitting on a barge - you had a football field in front of you and needed binoculars to see the end of the bonnet. I know it's supposed to be pedestrian friendly but I think it spoils the looks. I much prefer the looks of a current Mondeo and to sit in feels far more cosy and cocooned than in a '7. This was in a full leather 407! The face lifted one does give it an extra edge especially the black plastics in favour of silver.

35k though is very good for any car of this age, for this price and these toys. Will I buy it though? No. Am I tempted? Slightly but not enough to justify spending 7k on. I would rather spend a little more on something more "solid" (my 406 is so rattly now, it really does feel like a loose collection of nuts and bolts in a baked beans can).

The 406 is working OK. It needs a service badly - maybe a job for the weekend, and some bolts tightening up. Perhaps a Haynes museum meet will point fingers towards any particular ones!

[Bailes1992]

Lets be honest the Honda was more bad luck than anything. Probably used by someone who thrashed it from his house from cold every morning to the motorway.

Unfortunatley engines only really wear when they are cold, the 407 in question would have more than likely every single day been started up cold, gone 2miuntes down the road to work still cold and then after the work has finished it will have been driven a few miles home from work still cold.
This sort of driving attracts water into the oil which accelerates engine wear, the oil will very rarely become hot enough to burn it all off.
Ontop of that under light load or idle the EGR will have been open which would have been during the majority of this driving, drawing in diesel soot which then mixes with PCV gasses forming a lovelly thick tar inside all the intake tract and degrade the oil and a massive rate!
Then because it's done such low mileage the oil would have only been replaced every 2 YEARS! which will also acclerate engine wear.
And if it is a mobility owner it's highly likely that it would have been the older generation who would have never put their foot down to clean it all it once in a while!

You could be looking at blocked DPF's, sticky EGR's, Sticky vanes on the turbo and probably more wear on the engine than your average 100ker.

I'm a massive PSA fan so the whole "You just don't like pugs" is nonsese. I was dead set on getting a 407 Coupe or a C5. It was only by chance the misses made me take a MK4 Mondeo out I realised how much nicer to drive they are!

If it was a petrol maybe I would look into something with lower mileage because generally they are cheaper to repair. But when it comes to diesels high mileage always wins!

Okay, think of it this way. I paid £5900 for my Mondeo at 3 year old with 97k on the clock. One of identicle age and spec with 40k on the clock would have cost me £10,000!
That's £4,100 difference! I could repair quite a lot on my car with that money!

I went out and looked for a car with stonechips, it's a dead giveaway it's been sat in the outside lane with a hot engine, bumbling away 2000rpm to 3000rpm with varying load and boost quite happy! Under those circumstances very little wear is done to the engine and drivetrain. I'd rather change a few bushes on the suspension than an engine.

Hope you don't think I'm being funny. It's just my side of the argument. I have owned both low and high mileage diesels and I'd go high mileage any day of the week (if you couldn't tell.)

[Welly]

I agree strongly.

Conversely though when I bought the T5 it had 23,000 miles on it at 4 years old. I saw from the history that it had only done about 600 miles in the 4th year so god knows what kinda short journeys that did (the owner had moved to London with the car probably didn't really need it).

My engine's been spot on though and I liked the fact the car was in 'as new' condition so I could keep it that way. It also 'felt' new to drive.

It's not so bad with a petrol though, and especially a turbo petrol as they heat up fast. Good oil helps too, I pay around £70.00 for my oil.

Goodbye

[Captain Jack]

Lets be honest the Honda was more bad luck than anything. Probably used by someone who thrashed it from his house from cold every morning to the motorway.

Sadly, not, Sam. That particular generation of Honda had certain design faults, which reared their heads after around 80k mark. Weak clutches, bad hot spots causing turbo failures and cracks in the exhaust manifold, etc. Unlucky with the who car's make/model! Petrols were, unsurprisingly, far more reliable, though still had master clutch cylinder issues. Not saying all cars are like that but that one was. I didn't do enough research before buying it - the only issue there!

Unfortunatley engines only really wear when they are cold, the 407 in question would have more than likely every single day been started up cold, gone 2miuntes down the road to work still cold and then after the work has finished it will have been driven a few miles home from work still cold.
[snip]
You could be looking at blocked DPF's, sticky EGR's, Sticky vanes on the turbo and probably more wear on the engine than your average 100ker.

Yes, agreed. Funnily enough, my mum's C4 is suffering more or less the same faults. In 8 years, the car has done just under 60k... less than 10k a year.

I'm a massive PSA fan so the whole "You just don't like pugs" is nonsese.

Hehe, I meant that in a half- hearted manner

I was dead set on getting a 407 Coupe or a C5. It was only by chance the misses made me take a MK4 Mondeo out I realised how much nicer to drive they are!

Mmmmm, funny you should mention that. Last night, I was picked up for a night out in a friend's MK4 10 plate Mondigo 2.0 163bph(?), Titanium.... slushmatic. It felt so tight, I thought the car had done no more than 50k. Glanced over on the dashboard - 107k! Much, MUCH better build than any PSA car I sat it. Granted, it was only 3 years old but the mileage didn't seem to have any effect on it. Still felt new inside. Wasn't a fan of cloth seats, so it would have to be an X model for me. Lovely stereo as well (Sony, non-satnav)....

Okay, think of it this way. I paid £5900 for my Mondeo at 3 year old with 97k on the clock. One of identicle age and spec with 40k on the clock would have cost me £10,000!
That's £4,100 difference! I could repair quite a lot on my car with that money!

Point taken, but was more hoping to not see any faults on a 40k car in the first place.

Now - how do I get rid of my PSA rattles?!

[waue1978]

I was dead set on getting a 407 Coupe or a C5. It was only by chance the misses made me take a MK4 Mondeo out I realised how much nicer to drive they are!

Mmmmm, funny you should mention that. Last night, I was picked up for a night out in a friend's MK4 10 plate Mondigo 2.0 163bph(?), Titanium.... slushmatic. It felt so tight, I thought the car had done no more than 50k. Glanced over on the dashboard - 107k! Much, MUCH better build than any PSA car I sat it. Granted, it was only 3 years old but the mileage didn't seem to have any effect on it. Still felt new inside. Wasn't a fan of cloth seats, so it would have to be an X model for me. Lovely stereo as well (Sony, non-satnav)....

Couldn't comment on Mk4s - at least not until I get a go in the boss's new one (if he ever makes up his mind what he's getting), but the Mk3 Mondeo was exactly the same. Every time I drive my old 55 plate it stuns me with just how well it goes round roundabouts & how solid it feels. It's only really the rusty door issue (2000-2004 models) on the body & various issues with the TDCis that lets the side down. Yes, that 55 plate feels a bit sluggish as it's only a 1.8, but Mum's never had any issues since we gave it to her nearly 4 years ago. The TDdi diesels seem to be absolutely solid & mine felt a lot quicker than the 110 Hdi than the extra 5bhp would suggest.

[Bailes1992]

I wouldn't in a million years think my car's done 125k.
I do have two interior rattles, one is behind the instrument cluster which was replaced about 18 months ago and another is behind the drivers door reflector which is a bit loose. Probably wouldnt take half hour to fix them both.
It really is no good around town! It's too cumbersome at slow speeds and has a few too many blindspots. Parking sesnors are a must!
At speed its an absolute dream, extreamly solid and refined. And when the going gets twisty it sticks right in there!

MK3 is a better drivers car, parts of me wish I got a late ST TDCi or Ghia X TDCi. They don't have issues more than any other diesel, DMFs and injectors are the main concerns.
The TDDi is bulletproof as far as the lump is concerned and a remap will have it pushing 160bhp!
Main reason I wish I had a MK3 is there is more information out there for them. There is even a program like PP2000 just for the facelifted MK3's. Makes life much easier and injector changes much cheaper as they have to be programmed to the car. Unfortunatley as of yet there is nothing out there for the Mk4 Mondeo.

If I come into some money in the next year or so I may get rid of mine and replace it for a late ST220 and have it on LPG. That or a Focus ST-3 on LPG.
But for now I'm perfectly happy with 65mpg+, 380nms and 155bhp! It does go pretty well.

[rwb]

I'm confused (not that it takes much). What's the claim?

(a) Mondeos are better than 407s?
(b) modern diesels are sh*t?
(c) modern cars hold together better after 100k than cars made 10 years ago do?

or something else?

[steve_earwig]

I was wondering if I took a wrong turn somewhere

[Sonia406]

Get it...... probably cause less problems than these troublesome 406s..... then again.......

[dirtydirtydiesel]

Get it...... probably cause less problems than these troublesome 406s..... then again.......

Na the more modern they get the worse they get I.M.H.O, you wouldn't get me in a fully automatic ( self driving ) French car OOOhhh the electrics !!!!

[Sonia406]

Get it...... probably cause less problems than these troublesome 406s..... then again.......

Na the more modern they get the worse they get I.M.H.O, you wouldn't get me in a fully automatic ( self driving ) French car OOOhhh the electrics !!!!

Tell you what we should do, all go out and get 205s, simple cars to run and fix - let's go retro and rename the club! Retro pugs all the way... none of this new crap, even though mine is nearly 12 years old (16th Nov) she still feels too new... comfortable don't get me wrong the best car I have had to drive but the 205s just had the edge, so much easier to look after, but then those diesels engines do go on and on and on...... Someone just buy me a HDi already


On a side note, I was kindly returned my Peugeot Diesel Engine haynes manual the other day

[STALLED]

Horrid colour. Probably par for the reason why it is so cheap.

[Captain Jack]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321213844642? ... 1438.l2649

[Bailes1992]

I like that but again think the mileage is far too low! Get a 100ker!

[rwb]

Is that an evolution of the 2.2 that was in the X-type? What is is before it's mapped to 215?

Same price as the 407 I'm eyeing up but 2 years younger and 22k fewer miles.