Confused about brakes

vladman · Post by **vladman** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 5:12 pm

Hi guys,

Had a look at my offside rear wheel brake, as that's another point my car failed the MOT on. Very confused, never seen this before. It's a disc brake, with normal pads, but with a drum brake and brake shoes inside the disc!

I've never seen this before.

What I'm actually confused about is these brake shoes inside the drum. Do they only work when the handbrake is pulled, or do they also work in conjunction with the pads when the foot-brake is applied? I'm guessing the latter, because if it's the former (the shoes only working when the handbrake is applied), then I can't see how they would ever get worn, because the handbrake is only ever used when the car is stationery, so there's no friction of turning wheel to wear them out.

BTW, they appeared to be nearly totally worn out, so I went out and bought some replacement ones and will attempt to fit them tomorrow (to both rear wheels). Fingers crossed I manage to disassemble it all, and then put it all back together without any "spare" parts at the end!

mjb · Post by **mjb** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 8:06 pm

The disc callipers are worked by the foot brake and the drum by the handbrake.

I've found they're a right pain in the rear to remove as the bolts holding the callipers on (on mine at least) are seized solid, probably due to copious amounts of thread locker. BTW, the ones that have the rubber covers over them are 6mm allen bolts. The position and covers makes it incredibly difficult to tell...

I really need to get around to replacing my rear discs+pads. The disc's falling to bits, but it's too cold and wet to be lying in the middle of the road fixing it

vladman · Post by **vladman** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 8:22 pm

mjb wrote:The disc callipers are worked by the foot brake and the drum by the handbrake.

but if that's the case, why would the drum shoes EVER get worn then?

'cause the handbrake is only ever used when the car is stationery.

mjb · Post by **mjb** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 8:31 pm

If they're badly adjusted?

Post by **Welly** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 9:54 am

Generally speaking the handbrake shoes should never need replacing, they are usually tiny things and I don't think they have a lot of thicknes anyway.

Usually, a good clean up and some copper grease on the moving pivots and levers is all that is needed.

Quite often it is the cable itself that restricts handbrake performance, there is a loop bracket near the rear wheels that guides the cable to the drums and the outer sheathing can wear through, then it 'bunches' up and the cable can't move so much.

Have a look at some new shoes by all means just to check the thickness, it is possible that the handbrake has been 'on' at some point and worn.

God luck though, I hate drums/self adjusters/springs Ahhhhhhggggghhhhh...................

vladman · Post by **vladman** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 10:27 am

yes, they look quite small and thin, but i think mine are definitely worn, so i've bought some replacements. can't hurt to replace them. dreading even attemtping to do it myself, the mechanism, all the springs, adjusters and everything else looks very complicated. not to mention that it's 7 degrees outside.

mbell666 · Post by **mbell666** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 1:18 pm

I changed mine (both disc sets, pads and hand brake shoes) the rear disc are quite "tricky" to get off. Make sure you run the adjuster inside the drum all the way in, will make it a lot easier.

If you plan on changing the shoes make sure you follow the haynes instructions carefully, the springs are almost impossible to fit if not done in the correct order.

personally i don't mind the manual adjuster, alot better than an auto one that doesn't work!

vladman · Post by **vladman** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 1:19 pm

just changed one side. what a bastard of a job!

i was freezing, and after i changed the shoes, the disc wouldn't go back on, even after adjusting the adjuster to it's lowest setting... took me probably half an hour to force the bastard thing on... now i have to go back out and do the other wheel...

vladman · Post by **vladman** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:38 pm

just done the other one too... fingers crossed i did everything right, and it was actually worth it spending nearly 5 hours in the freezing cold out doing it...

Pyros6546 · Post by **Pyros6546** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 10:23 pm

hi all, i have a 2.0 16v GLX 1997 model only had it a few days
drives gr8 very responsive on steering and brakes have the
speedo prob but thats getting fixed soon, i seem to have a prob
with the handbrake however, i pull it on as far as i can get
but it doesn't seem to work properly on the flat its fine but
as i live on a small hill i have a problem can anyone post the
diagrams and explanation on how to adjust the handbrake
or give me an idea as to what else could be wrong
thanks in advance

maglite · Post by **maglite** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:50 am

vladman wrote:yes, they look quite small and thin, but i think mine are definitely worn, so i've bought some replacements. can't hurt to replace them. dreading even attemtping to do it myself, the mechanism, all the springs, adjusters and everything else looks very complicated. not to mention that it's 7 degrees outside.

I'm gonna attempt to change the rear discs, pads and internal handbrake shoes too on my D9 HDI this weekend providing the weather is ok. I've just read your posts and it seems a bit of mission to do. I too was surprised about the internal handbrake shoes. 5 hours!

AAAAAAAARGH!

I would have got this done from the stealers, but since they serviced my D8 and didn't check the gearbox oil (as the service stated) I am never going to them ever again. When they do a full service all they do is visually check fluids after changing the oil and filters. Once thats done they just tick the rest off on the check sheet. I was thinking about going to trading standards about this issue but its just too much of a headache and such a slow process. In the end I just changed the gearbox with the help of my dad. I just don't have any faith in the stealers, because they are exactly that - STEALERS.

Pyros6546 · Post by **Pyros6546** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:58 am

thanks for the diagram maglite however is that
the same one for the 97 model i believe mines a d8

maglite · Post by **maglite** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:38 am

D8 Handbrake diagram: